Warcraft: A New Dawn

[Reaper51]

On the new bnet, whats the map limit for multiplayer? I'm guessing here: 16,24,32,48,64MBs?
BTW: we should wait for sc2 to get out of beta before we mod it.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

I don't believe it's confirmed yet although someone mentioned it being similar to NWN (imo), where you download 'resource' packs, rather than import into the map, so effectively unlimited.

 

[Reaper51]

I think it would be best for it to be unlimited, so mappers can create high quality maps with more music, custom UI, etc...

On Topic: who is in charge of the storyline and lore here?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

I agree although there are a good majority who think unlimited content means people will become 'blinded' by appearances and fail to create good gameplay, like many of today's retail games.

I disagree with that, I think it only allows your imagination to go that much further, yes it can be 'blinding' but it's up to the developers to see through it.

 

[Reaper51]

Well i don't think many people will play 64MB maps on bnet due to dl times. What is the expected map size for WC4: SC2 multiplayer map?
Lets see:
Full UI: 3MB
Terrain and props: 1MB
Spells and Triggers: 2MB
Icons: 1MB
Sound: 3MB
Models: 8MB
Music: 5MB
Other: 1MB

Total: 24MB

Would you mind 24MB on bnet.
Remember bnet is much faster (i assume)
so dl times might be close to a mps
it would take maybe a min depending on host

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Well I think the idea behind these 'resource packs' is that you download them in your own time, you can't join a game without the appropriate pack, so the start isn't held up by slow dl speed, it will also be faster streaming from a server rather than the host.

a 24mb pack would take what, 3mins on a typical connection?

 

[Reaper51]

a typical connection has about 1mps tops so 24MB > 1 min and packs are a good idea which blizzard should have done in the first place for wc3

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Indeed ^.^ that's what my wc3 tutorial uses, in effect, but people complained about that... so I dunno, it'll be alright if they implement things like:

- A dialog popping up saying "You need this "link" modpack to join the game"

And you can download it within a click and through the BNET service, without having to find it and mess around, queueing downloads would be good also and combination packs (like 500mb each) that have an array of common textures/models in.

So a map might use the 'General TD Resource Pack' etc...

 

[Reaper51]

Lets talk about the storyline and lore. Should we continue exactly from where tft left off or should we skip some years?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Look back a few pages, we've already decided:

Pretty much straight after the events of TFT, give or take several months to a couple of years at the most.

The playable races + really basic info have been agreed and pmed to flat, wait and see if he deems it ready to post

But it's looking like:

The Forsaken

Humans

The Horde

The Sentinels

The Naga

EDIT: Forgot one: The Burning Legion (yes, playable, even in melee )

 

[Reaper51]

are the forsaken draeneis?
Will they look like this: pic1
or like this: pic2

 

[The World Is Flat]

the forsaken are undead, they are essentially the scourge. but split off and smaller, and more diverse.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

What's next on the agenda, while I have the time?

+ Yes, they are basically part of the scourge who the Lich King lost control of after the damage done by Illidan's ritual (eye of Sargeras), they are led by Sylvanas aka 'The Banshee Queen'.

 

[Reaper51]

oh, maybe we should include the draenei as well
BTW: heres the foresaken symbol

 

[The World Is Flat]

Yes. next e need to make asummary of what happened after the litch king claimed ascention. shall we say illidan survived?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Yes, I made sure to note all characters on that list, that we should include in the storyline.

Illidan was dragged back to Outland by Prince Kael'thas and Lady Vashj, though we need to discuss whether we allow the Naga some blood elf units as effectively Kael has 'abandoned' the majority of his people, so would struggle to replenish them, perhaps campaign only? Or elite melee?

 

[Reaper51]

So the main storyline will be about illidan vs arthas?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

It's to be decided, but I'm sure the Forsaken VS Arthas is a safer bet, with the Burning Legion threat sneaking ever closer, they fight blindly.

Flat is adding up each race's current positions (according to wc3/our assumed lore) now-ish?

 

[The World Is Flat]

hhmmm i'd liek to keep t all here.

and also. i think ists mainly going to be the forsaken trying to get revenge and a foothold, the humans (non thereamorians) will battle them and try and retake loaderon. the demons will be attacking evrywhere.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Ok, are you going to outline the main plot then? Or do you want me to do it? Or anything for that matter?

 

[The World Is Flat]

You i guess
then i'll edit
working on darius 2.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Ok, should I just use my initiative or do you have some specifications for me?

E.g. How detailed, what format (Timeline/Paragraph Summary) you want it to be in?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Updated

a pages worth. do what you want.

 

[Reaper51]

i would like to sign up for the following: brainstorming, data editing, terraining, and mini writing, if its ok with flat

the project needs more members, the more the better!

 

[The World Is Flat]

Alright, well give me a sample tooltip and short history and youll be accepted.

 

[Reaper51]

what kind of tooltip you want: unit, spell, item, hero, building.
short history of what, plz be more specific

 

[Fulla]

6 races sounds perfect. Should also try to keep them all as unique as possible, not just the heroes/units but also the way they are played and their production/specialties.

I don't think Naga as a main race is a good idea, they are Water creatures it just doesn't work, they're more of a sub race. Going with a 'Magic Corrupted' race would be better IMO, i.e. following the Blood Elves magic addiction traits, with some demons and naga's mixed in appropriately.

So I'd say:

• Alliance:
  - Jaina >>>> Humans / Dwarves / Gnomes / Dranei etc.
• Horde:
  - Thrall >>>> Orc / Ogres / Trolls / Goblins/ Taurens etc.
• Sentinels:
  - Maiev >>>> Night Elves / Druids / Dryads etc.
• Forsaken:
  - Sylvannus >>>> All the 'free' Undead!
• Legion:
  - Kil'jaeden >>>> Whats left of the Burning Legion
• Outlanders:
  - Kael (Imo should lead) >>>> Blood Elves / Naga / Demons

 

[Reaper51]

there is that good enough for yah!

{EDIT 1}
Flat, we need a lot of modelers if you didn't notice, we ain't got none!

{EDIT 2}
Ill start recruiting, + i have 2 modeler friends that might be free...

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Yeah I tried a friend to, but he started complaining about low-poly limitations -.-' (anything below 10k apparently).

 

[Reaper51]

money = good motivation

BTW: if our map is pro enough, we might get money for it, and besides its very unlikely that blizzard will make wc4.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Lol, ok will do, not freeware then? :/ Or you on about site advertising etc?

 

[Reaper51]

just site advertising, im against paying for maps, its not right

Edit: lol, flat u posted 1min before me!

 

[The World Is Flat]

yeah i ment was asking around and recruiting.

and maybe some part of this will be permium, but not for most.

 

[Turminator8]

Hey, I'd love to join this team. I'm a fairly good terrainer but I haven't been able to get a SC2 beta key yet

anyway if your interested, I'll be around

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Hey that's great, thanks for applying.

Do you have any examples of your previous work in Warcraft 3? Ready to show flat when he comes online? He'll decide whether your required or not. Perhaps just make or attach a quick map to your next post so it's all ready when he next comes online.

 

[real138]

hey sorry guys UI is being delayed as i went to a party unexpectedly last night... and wont have time today either as i will be sleeping it off.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

@ Real

lol

@TWIF

I will whip up several paragraphs with different plot outlines, nothing more complex than how it will begin, climax and end. You can choose/vote which one (if any) are suitable to expand on.

~ PM me if you've got a better idea, to spend my time on.




EDIT: Was brushing up on some lore and saw an oppurtunity for free advertising: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW02BWFRnkw&feature=related LOL

 

[Modhell]

Yo yo yo, 666 posts nightmare, looks good on you.

Ummm basically I bought a tablet and painter 11 a lil while back and I've been adapting my skills to them bit by bit on weekends and tomorrow I want to attempt a large piece for more practice and I'm thinking it couldn't hurt to base it on warcraft 4 and perhaps if it turns out well it could be a desktop for your project....

.... what I want to draw is just two warriors opposite each other (and perhaps could squeeze a war 4 logo in between them), but to make it worthwhile and add a bit of challenge what kind of warriors should I draw? like orc vs human or could you give me 2 specific units you would like to see concepts of with some sort of detail about what makes them different to war 3?

I was thinking of drawing a chaos orc and a bit of a rebel footman but I doubt chaos orcs would fit into your lore unless you think it would be cool to bring them back... but then I see that you are thinking of making night elves vs scourge the main theme, or am I wrong?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

The Azerothians as a 'people' but we will need to decide on faction/resistance group names as well.

EDIT: Does this mean any written work has to be checked off/edited by me first, then I'll send it to you in an organized format?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Nope, sounds good. and remeber to update that race pm wit th theramorian empire. and the ppls in loaderon so i can post it to the front page. I'm also promoting you to director of all writing.

{EDIT}
You should now use red in your posts, because of you status. i will use white.

{EDIT}
Hmmm, maybe some kind of demon imp with a sword, and one of the survivors with an axe, in tattered cloths.

Guys i need somthing:

what do we call the survivors in loaderon?

{EDIT}
Exactly. you aslo get writing members to write what you think we need, or what i tell you we need. also, for those invloved, heres a sig if you want: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=f7vz1z

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Ok awesome, I like the signature but the file won't upload or open (photoshop), have you compressed it?

 

[The World Is Flat]

no... its just a photo, no need to edit it. just upload as is. woth the IMG tags.

{EDIT}
Great. looking better and better team. also, please link the image to this page.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Have done

EDIT: Will get round to editing the Thermorians/Alliance as you asked, within the next hour, is there anything else you want on there, so I can get it ready to post this afternoon?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Hmmm...well, lets see. the thereamorians, a new name for the surviovors, goo descriptions of all... the naga are should be called somthing.... maybe to do with Ashara? becasue the blood elves and the naga still worship her...

 

[Masiah]

Blood elves don't worship Azhara...

 

[The World Is Flat]

The naga do, and the blood eves are the blood elves becasue they were high elves, and they follwed ashara... so...

 

[Masiah]

The real followers of Azhara were the Highborne, the elite class of the night elven society before the first invasion of the Legion and collapse of the Well of Eternity. Most of them died during the invasion, and the rest were sent underwater during the fracturing of the world, where they could only survive by making a pact with the Old Gods and turning themselves into naga... which they did.
The high elves (and consequently the blood elves) were night elves that refused to abandon arcane magic after the collapse of the Well and were exiled, so they are not necessarily Highborne.

On the other hand, are you sure you want to ignore completely WoW lore? I mean, many things were retconned and changed, but it is still the most known and accepted version of the Warcraft world and following it would make it easier for the possible player to accept the story we are going to show.

EDIT: Speaking of story... Are we planning to make a campaign or a mod for melee battles?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

We've already discussed this, since a good majority of Wc3 RTS players have not/can not or no longer, play wow - they will be unable to follow the story.

I'm pretty certain WoW players aren't gonna jump off and buy sc2 just to play wc4 (the rts) either.

But your right the blood elves didn't worship Ashzara, they follow Illidan because he has promised to 'numb' the pain of their thirst for magic.

EDIT: Both.

EDIT 2: Oh and WoW raped the storyline by killing off pretty much every important character.

EDIT 3: Should only the "State of Theramore" be playable in melee? Seven is just a weird number... and they are much more similar to wc1, 2 and 3's humans.

 

[Masiah]

We've already discussed this, since a good majority of Wc3 RTS players have not/can not or no longer, play wow - they will be unable to follow the story.

I'm pretty certain WoW players aren't gonna jump off and buy sc2 just to play wc4 (the rts) either.

Haven't seen that in the thread, but I'm cool with it.

But your right the blood elves didn't worship Ashzara, they follow Illidan because he has promised to 'numb' the pain of their thirst for magic.

By leeching from demons. Goodie.

Anyways, regarding races I've come up with an idea, expanding on something that has been mentioned already. It's quite a flexible system based on "alliances" where the player picks a race at the start of the game (troll, gnome, human, dwarf, w/e) which will be the base of his or her "civilization" in the game and as it advances he or she can ally an X number of races that will grant access to a limited amount of units/spells/whatever of said race.
For example, at the start of the game I pick dwarves as my "main" race, giving me access to all of its buildings and units (let's say dwarves have the best siege engines of all races), and later I ally myself with Blood Elves, which will grant me a limited number of their units, tech and etc. (In this case, adding spellcaster units to my army). Furthermore, I could ally myself with another race, in this case Naga, which also grants me a limited access to their units and tech (let's say they have the best naval units in game).
So, once we have advanced quite into the game, I will have an army of dwarves supported by blood elven and naga units, with good siege engines, sorcerers and naval units.
Or I could have a dwarven army allied with humans and tauren. Or orcs and trolls. Whatever. The point is that each player could end up with an army made up exactly for him or her, focusing on an aspect with their main race with tints of others given by the "allied" races.
Obviously we should limit the system by following the lore. For example, night elves can't ally naga, so if you pick night elves as your main race or as your first ally, you will not be able to ally naga later.
Or humans with orcs, and so on (although I think we should make humans the most flexible race, capable of allying themselves with everyone else, we are cheap bitches indeed).

Whaddaya think? It breaks with the fixed race thingy we had in WC3, and it can be quite fun.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

LOL, we've already discussed two things very similar to that as well ^.^

We've disregarded both, it causes way to many balance issues, kudos for the attempt, but you might want to flick through what you've missed next time

+rep for making me laugh so hard