Parenting

brad.dude03 · 02-15-2009, 02:26 AM

I'd like to share a poem with you called This Be The Verse. It was recited to my cousin by the actor Richard Griffiths when they met after a performance of his broadway play Equus.

"They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself."

Phillip Larkin, 1971.

Is Larkin right in his views of parenting? Do we really hand on our failings to our children, despite the attempts of many to force their children not to make the same mistakes that they did? Are they making things worse in the process?

Or is Larkin's view too cynical? Is failing a part of parenting?

Discuss.

~Void~ · 02-15-2009, 03:51 AM

No, we hand on the values of our times to our children; but since the world is changing at an exponential rate, those values are often outdated.

Hakeem · 02-15-2009, 05:16 AM

There are parents like that for sure. I don't think there are very many people qualified to be "good" parents, but so many people insist on doing it that any plan to stop them would never come to fruition in the lifetimes of the people who enacted it.

But it's not so bad. We can deal with it. :P

Elenai · 02-15-2009, 07:01 PM

All parents are 'bad' parents, and all parents are 'good' parents.

It just depends on what 'part' of parenting you are talking about.

~Void~ · 02-15-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hakeem

There are parents like that for sure. I don't think there are very many people qualified to be "good" parents, but so many people insist on doing it that any plan to stop them would never come to fruition in the lifetimes of the people who enacted it.

But it's not so bad. We can deal with it. :P

It's not like anyone gets spoiled by their parents. Anyone with potential is smart enough to ignore the bullshit.

CombatTheWombat · 02-16-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elenai

All parents are 'bad' parents, and all parents are 'good' parents.

It just depends on what 'part' of parenting you are talking about.

If sarcasm hurts you do not read the rest of this post:

Yeah gee, you are right. The parents that drink and beat their children are just bad in a few areas, other than that they are great. And those damn parents that are responsible and teach their children important life lessons are just good in that area. Everywhere else I am sure they are terrible >< There are most definitely good parents and bad parents. You can't say they are all good and all bad because it simply isn't true. Except for a few rare cases where the child takes matters into their own hands and becomes a productive member of society despite drunk abusive parents, the success of a parent can be measured by the accomplishments of their children. Across the board deadbeat parents produce deadbeat children and good parents produce good children.

Elenai · 02-17-2009, 01:19 AM

A drunken father can still teach about the cruelty of the real world, and an over protective mother can still shelter a child until they cannot function...

Devine · 02-17-2009, 04:13 PM

No, prove: Aragorn in Lord Of The Rings.
He didn't fail or get possessed by the ring :D

Arvedui · 02-18-2009, 04:40 AM

I think his views are a little too cynical.

When we're children we tend to see the bad more often than the good. But put in similar situations as your parents you probably would have done the same thing. Or you learn from your parents mistakes and don't do what they did.

Yes there are horrendous parents, or parents who can't physically take care of their children (because of disabilities or whatever).

Parents like that usually teach the children to be independent. I know some kids from "projects" whose parents are not there for them at all, but they are the most persistent learners because they don't want to be like their parents.

Anyway, as per some of your questions:

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad

Do we really hand on our failings to our children, despite the attempts of many to force their children not to make the same mistakes that they did? Are they making things worse in the process?

Sometimes. It really depends on how you approach it, and what kind of person you are and your children are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad

Is failing a part of parenting?

Hell yes it is. Failing is part of life, why should parenting be any different?

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad

Is Larkin's view too cynical?

Yes, it's a little too cynical, even for me. Parents aren't the only ones who "mold" and influence their children.

Devine · 02-18-2009, 01:36 PM

You pass on your genes so basicly, if you are disabled, your kid wont be very able too :P. You pass on your habbits, really, A dad smokes, the boy ends up smoking.
A dad beats his kids, the kids beat theirs. Although some children manage to break through the cycle :/

Parents are roll-models for their kids to follow and if they have bad abbits, the kid always get screwed up :/

Falconeye · 02-18-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevineArmy

No, prove: Aragorn in Lord Of The Rings.
He didn't fail or get possessed by the ring :D

Well the emphasis of you using Lord of the Rings which is fictional in my opinion really doesn't suit how people really act. Not to mention Tolkien lived a long time ago and his ideas put into the story don't match up with certain ideas today.

@Brad.dude03: Parents don't always screw over their childrens lives and leave them "fucked up" but it tends to be the case that when a parent is a poor mentor their child will take up the bad traits.

Aschy · 02-18-2009, 10:35 PM

Well by the poem it got me thinking, what if we really truly are becoming worse parents every time we carry on our generation, I don't think his poem's message is that far fetched.

You have got to think that even though some of things I'm going to say have been happening forever and may have been pretty bad at some points in man kinds life time.

But remember when your grandparents always used to tell you how old-school they used to be like how they never swore or never needed drugs like our generations or any of that old crap that is really moralistic (I dunno if that's a word it didn't come up in the spell check!?!). Maybe they were boring as fuck but they were 2 things "at least 79.99% safer everyday" and "learned at least 1/100th of the things we must learn today in school". but now look at us we got junkies and dealers on every street corner, swearing/ violence/ mature theme's/ sexuality/shows like Family guy(love the fucking shit out that show) pushing the limits on t.v everyday/ Genocides happening after WW2, constant wars with almost no point but greed. If you are old enough to go all the way through high school then you know whats it like when you are in the highest grade in public school and everyone in the other grades seem like little immature kids and in high school all the new kids every year seem like different little shits. All I have to say is something has to give and I think its our children and their children and their children..

I don't know what point I trying to make or even if I even know what I'm talking about but is it a combo of everything changing like it always does or at the fault of the parents that are raising the next generation.

I agree with Falconeye though when you say a bad mentor makes bad eggs. So in that case they probably wouldn't even notice or care when they do hand their failings on to their children and it probably builds and builds immaturity in the child.

Hakeem · 02-19-2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arvedui

Parents aren't the only ones who "mold" and influence their children.

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Teh_Ephy · 02-20-2009, 07:16 AM

I myself am mostly an amalgam of my parents' negative habits. I certainly picked up elitism from my mother, my frequent inability to make sense, pack-ratting, my control-freak issues, mild paranoia, and a couple others I can't recall at the moment. The only reason I'm not going to parent the way they do is that I'm not sure how it is humanly possible to be as high-strung as they are, except they grew up in the middle of an Eastern dictatorship.

Gilles · 02-20-2009, 02:21 PM

My parents are almost too good. I've rarely found them to be wrong when it comes to parenting, it gets frustrating. They've had a lot of practice with my siblings.