NEW!
Since the latest vid on youtube made and posted by MrStormyZ for Spacing, I've decided to upgrade the map.
Click below to download new versions of the map via Hive's pastebin Spacing Maps
Spacing v1.1
Map Genre: Melee
Terrain: Multiple
Size: Smaller than tiny
Players: Up to 4
Details
Space Management
This can be done with every race, as all the buildings you will build share the same size, mostly. Even if they don't I have tried it with each race and its all ok, so lets start looking at them pictures:
a) Altar - here you will learn how badass heroes are, and you will also see that those abilities you hardly ever used in standard melee maps work magic here, and with a good reason. My best build place is next to the gold mine
b) Supply - I stick these next to the altar, for various reasons - most important is you don't want them in middle of the road where your hero/army is gonna move.
c) Barracks - My favorite build place is in the corner, where above I can put a burrow/farm/zigurat/moonwell or almost any kind of tower. Units trained will also spawn right from the barracks or above
d) This only works for Night Elf and Orc, since their Mill / Hunter's Hall is small enough to be build in the space. Be sure to know that - Human's Lumber Mill and Undead's Graveyard are really bigger than them.
e) Here is the same build order with Human, without the Mill.
1. Orc
Tactic
Orcs holds one of the few things that makes my skin crawl. This is one thing you will hate and love about them. Ready? - Orc Burrow does TOO MUCH DAMAGE! That's right. When you pack 4 peons inside a burrow, it will shoot like hyperventilating kid with a water gun, and the damage is really worth it. I cannot check if its normal damage or piercing damage, I think its piercing but in high numbers.
Tactic Type: Tower/Ranged/Control
Tactic Name: Snake Burrow
Advantage: Overpowering in damage and range
Disadvantage: Weak versus artillery and vulnerable to early rush
This attack build is based upon ranging your enemy from your base, using burrows, heroes, few headhunters and few towers. Its damage isn't high, but its fast and it scales badly for them if you catch them unprepared. Let's start:
a) Standard build - 1 Altar, 1 Burrow, 1 Barracks and 1 Mill. Notice that even though the Mill will block entrance for normal units to the burrow, peons can still go in it.
b) Hero and preparation - I have found that the best hero to suit this type of assault is the Shadow Hunter and the reason why the first word of this attack guide is snake. Get it? Load 1-2 peons in your burrow when you build your hero.
c) Strike fast, and twice as hard - By now you should have your hero and your burrow. You can also train a couple of Headhunters as you might need them later on. Its time to start; level Serpent Ward for level 1 and place a snake just at the end of forest wall. The thing of this is that, the sight is blocked by the trees. Placing a serpent ward will reveal nearby buildings and units, making your burrow a deadly tower. Serpent Ward costs 30 mana on all levels, get better in damage and health and the cooldown is low. Wave hello to your enemies
d) Strike again, four times as hard - Now its time to build your second burrow. I recommend building this one on space where you lumbered with your peons. You can also do as I did, build two Watch Towers who are particularly good against other ranged units, such as Night Elf archers, headhunters or riflemen. Their damage to buildings is weak, but since they shoot really fast, they will contribute. Move the peons from the first burrow to the new one, or build new ones.
e) Counter tactics - While this takes time and effort to make it into a single devastating tactic, it can also make your gambit turn in your enemy's favor. The worst thing that can happen to you is being rushed while preping for this. A bunch of Ghouls or Footmen, or worse - Grunts will totally terrorize your base and you might lose the game. The other thing is artillery units. Night Elf Ballista can be build just with having Hunter's Den while all other races have their artillery units wired when you tier up your main building. This makes Night Elves superior to this tactic, and when you charge your Serpent Wards you will also reveal your hero, burrow and possibly all building nearby. Ballistas have really long range, do siege damage and even though fire in slow manner, do huge damage to buildings
f) Other tips - You can also use Farseer as a hero for your burrow tactic. His revealing ability (forgot the name) is also good, but it lasts short and costs 75 mana which is a lot. Also be aware if you have Goblin Laboratory in middle. Its reveal ability is cheap, 50 gold per use and can be used instantly. When Zeppelin can be build, spam the button to buy one. Trust me, a flying unit that reveals all the map is soo needed. You also get transport, anywhere you want. Just be aware that enemy towers will shoot your zeppelin down, very fast.
2. Human
Tactic
Humans are really hardcore considering what they can do to an enemy through range, towers and artillery. But what I used, is a completely other way - a rush. Footmen rush to be exact. Fond of footmen? You will love this one. Its the deadliest, fastest and most unpredictable move I've made in couple of games.
Tactic Type: Rush/Fast
Tactic Name: Ravage
Advantage: Surprising an enemy, catching them unprepared
Disadvantage: Weak versus prepared army, their rush units or few towers
a) Standard fast build - 1 Altar, 2 Farms, 1 Barracks. Put one peasant on farm, one on altar and 3 to build your barracks. You need around 4 footmen as fast as possible. The hero you must get is the Blood Mage
b) HELLO THAR! - Gather your footmen and your hero. Level up Flame Strike to level 1. Time to strike. What? Wait, wait... let me explain first. The second best rush you can get is via Keeper of the Groove with Treants and undead with ghouls being primary attack force and lumbering unit. But human have something else, as Flame Strike clears the forest for you, allowing an ambush instantly on an enemy who thought he was safe within his little haven.
c) Slaughter - the one thing you need to focus killing is their peasants, peons or acolytes. Night Elf will ruin this for you, as wisps are stuck inside the gold mine and cannot be killed that way. Plus they are your counter invasion, so if you know there are Night Elf, rush the other way. Keep building footmen and level your hero. This is fast experience for the hero, as you will tend to kill lots of units this way
d) Counter tactic - as you can see in the above picture, I rushed in on undead and they were waiting for me. I use an exact tactic as Undead to beat rushes and rush myself so how did the computer figure this out... pure luck I guess. Rushing on Ghouls and Beetles is crazy, but hey since I rushed anyway, let it rip. Lucky for me my Hero gets lot of xp from killings so thats one good side. Even though for each dead that falls, that Nerubian will get a beetle up against me.
e) Other tips - buying a Zeppelin from the Goblin Laboratory is a better way to rush an enemy than busting through your lumber, using an ability and a hero you must build in order to do that. But its arbitrary and not all games have Goblin Laboratory in middle, so this tip is rather useless. But consider it, there might be a time for it...
Also, building a few Arcane Towers as a preventive for your base. It has one really needed ability - Mana Burn per hit. It shoots very fast as well, and this means that you can burn enemy heroes from their abilities.
3. Undead
Tactic
Undead. Powerful as ever, and even more in small crowded places. What for you say? Well, besides Orcs who need workers to make burrows attack, which other race's main structures are used as offensive towers? None but undead. Think Ziggurat; Spirit Tower. Think Necropolis ; Halls of the Dead ; Black Citadel.
Tactic Type: Rush/Overrun/Control
Tactic Name: I Heal You don't
Advantage: Overpowering an enemy through pure brute force
Disadvantage: Weak versus AoE spells, towers behind walls
a) Standard fast build - 1 Altar, 2 Ziggurats, 1 Crypt. You can start better than other races, maybe not fast as human but atleast you won't miss out on starting gold, since 1 Acolyte can build everything in a cinch
b) Build Me NAO! - Your Crypt is finished and your Altar is waiting. What hero is best for such an assault? I have two options - Dreadlord and Nerubian Assasin. Why them? Two words. Vampiric Aura. Another two words. Carrion Beetles. What's better for your army than an aura that heals them for % of damage done? Or in the other case, making more troops for low mana cost that cause a ruckus when one of their own dies. Hilarious!
c) Shiver me timbers - This is the idle stage of your conquest. Your space is packed, as you can't build a Graveyard since its too big to fit there, so you need to focus your attention on other matters. Your number one is spamming the Ghoul button in crypt. You need as many as them walking dead as possible. Rally them straight on the lumber, so they can bring you as much as you need + fast lumber through your enemy. Once you get enough lumber, you want to either upgrade your Necropolis or upgrade your two Ziggurats to Neruabian Towers. They aren't good as Spirit Towers, but they pack a freezing punch which is very good if you are rushed. Don't forget - Level your Vampiric Aura to level 1.
d) Heres... JACKIE! - You lumbered your way into their base. Splendid! Start racking up those kills, and unleash your army of ghouls everywhere you see fit.
e) All your base is belong to us - Take what is yours. Build a base there. Hey what do you know, you have more build space now! From here on its your call, you can progress to Meat Wagons or Necromancers, or if your fancy is to be rich, Frost Wyrms... Half game is won anyway.
d) Counter tactics - Something that can ruin your early lumbering pirate ghoul days is early scouting. Unlucky, undead have NOTHING for scouting - not even a hero spell. So if an enemy scouts you before you can overrun him, it means early ranged units and early towers. Another way is sealing your entry with Farms, Moonwells, Burrows and packing few ranged units behind. This will definitely cause you to lose most of your power, and going from there will take you more time - which is bad.
e) Other tips - Consider other heroes as well. Deathknight is an option, hence his Unholy Aura makes your ghouls faster, and gives them more health regeneration. It isn't good as Vampiric Aura, but the Deathknight also has Deathcoil, which can really harm your enemy's ranged defenses, if they have that. However, Deathcoil costs plenty of mana and doesn't do much damage early on + its single target. Lich's Frost Nova might be better here, as it will do Aoe damage and slow the enemies.
A less aggressive approach is using Lich's Frost Armor spell instead of the two mentioned. It will give your ghouls survivability both in ranged and melee, not mentioning that melee enemies will be constantly slowed for fighting them. Plus the Lich can attack ranged, so that will give your attack more successful approach. But your ghouls will die eventually, as with vampiric aura, its a miracle if they do so. 15/30/45% of attack damage into health is overpowering and the thought of swapping that for less effective will spell doom for your melee army.
4. Night Elf
Tactic
The Night Elf might be the all round-about versatile race for this map. They come in all sizes, colors and flavors and they got plenty of tricks to kill and not be killed. I have fully played and thought of 3 strategies with them, but I will only write about one right now, where you get to experience the full joy of ranging your enemy to death. A VERY important thing to note is that all 3 races need to cut trees to get lumber. Night Elf do not, and that information only gives them the attribute for ranged control or *cough* One with nature
Tactic Type: Ranged/Control
Tactic Name: Sniped
Advantage: Controlling an enemy from range, crippling him
Disadvantage: Weak versus rush, lots of melee attacks
a) Standard build - 1 Altar, 1 Moonwell, 1 Ancient of War, 1 Hunter's Hall. This is the other race besides orc that can build their fourth building into the space without lumbering first. Build your Altar, the Moonwell, and the Ancient of War. Until the Altar is finished, build wisps for the gold mine and later for endless lumbering. Once you put them on a tree, you never remove them. That simple.
b) Mark for death - Altar's done? Good. Its a discussion whether to get Keeper of the Groove or Priestess of the Moon. Both are great. But for this particular job, Priestess is much better. Why? She has the best scout in the game. An invulnerable owl! Plus, Trueshot Aura? She was made to control her enemies from range, and she is the best option for this tactical surge
c) FROM WHERE ARE YOU SHOOTING ME!? - Hunter's Hall is done? Yum. You know what this means? This is where Night Elf has utmost superiority over the other races. This thing alone is the core to smite enemies with ease. If I would nerf a race in the map, it would be because of this - BALISTAS require only Hunter's Hall, not tier up in your Tree of Life. This is a biggie here. Start building Balistas. Four of them are enough for control. Do build one or two more Moonwells, as you will need them. Send your scout, put it on hold position and shoot to kill
d) Polish them up - There is one thing you need to do. Its a must if you can. STARFIRE. Getting 6th level in this map is really an achievement but with controlling all opponents by yourself, fast xp will be your best friend. There is nothing more satisfying than landing in your opponent's base and activating Starfire. 30 seconds of everything will either die or go low on hp. More food for your balistas.
e) Counter tactics - As you may know, the worst thing that can happen to you while you do this is a rush. Again, rush is simply scary. It doesn't mean you lost the game, who cares about that? It means he was faster than you, and with a race that can build artillery units, scout as much as they want and has Moonwells to replenish health and mana is psychological defeat. SO be aware that even though your buildings are trees and they can hit back at melee range, they are no match for 6 Footmen/Ghoul/Grunts or even 6 Archers. Second thing to bear are Sappers. Its random, its hard but one Sapper can kamikaze himself into your balistas, killing all of them and doing serious damage to your thick base.
f) Other tips - Most of the other tips will go into the other 2 night elf builds, but here are some that you might wanna know. Having a Zeppelin is the only easy way for you to transport. Don't forget, while your wisps do not knock down the tree to get lumber, this also gets you stuck, infinitely. The other exit out of your base is Unrooting an Ancient and having it eat a tree or having your balistas attack ground and knock the trees down. The second is better, but it requires Vorpal Blades upgrade which requires you to upgrade your Tree of Life.
Sappers also clear trees. I wouldn't use them for that, but its an option if you don't want to wait. Think about building an Ancient Protector. I have a whole build coming for that, but you may want to build one to keep your base little more safe from everywhere. Plus, with your Scout ability, the Protector will attack with the balistas, and more siege damage = more building damage.
Enjoy the map and if you got something to say, post it here or pm it to me.
Judge the terrain? And simplicity? Sure, its simple and sure, terrain is unoriginal and bad. I thought the concept is more important. But ok, you don't like it - its cool.
Quote:
Why you added map preview image to melee map, it only take space for nothing!
The story behind the simple map kinda made me think of such a screen. Its more fun to imagine 4 gods looking at some map rather than just make it a simple melee map. I think
tell me the new things...
if this is only a map with the original war3 things and with added loading screen/preview screen then it's nothing...
Yes its a map with no custom triggers. This is a melee map after all, but the concept of playing is different. If you like melee maps and fast hits you should atleast have fun playing this once.. or twice.
Let's summarize: first you have limited building space, limited resources and no extra gold mines. So expansion is impossible unless you play 1v1 or 1v2; or you cut into their base, destroy it and take their gold mine.
Second, lumber is in even less quantities than gold. More over, with getting lumber you cut a path into your enemy's base (unless your allied with them).
Third, you experience a whole new level of melee maps. Bigger maps are all about massing armies, using lots of abilities in large scale attacks (more or less anyway). Well here you can see that in tiny environment, tactics work better than army of footmen.
And last, if you mess up your space, you will most likely lose the game. While it doesn't take hard-wired focus to not get spaced out, it does take some practice and planning few moves ahead to organize where to build what. This is why I named the map spacing, its all about space here.
This is more of a psych map rather than click>build>attack. Everything is tiny paced, and the more strategic use you apply, the better results you will get. Bottom line, this map is just a melee map and I am not trying to invent the wheel. I am just saying, this melee map has much different mechanics, different pressure and different play styles. And I had lots of fun last night, so I thought about sharing it. If you don't like it, that's ok. Just, don't say that I made my map sooo special because I made a load screen about it. That was just because I felt like making it, and I liked it. This is still - JUST a melee map.
This cannot be approved since it doesn't meet the minimum guidelines for a melee map. There must be at least 2 goldmines per player on the map to ensure each player has a second base. There is no creep camps and also the terrain is too plain and simple.
This cannot be approved since it doesn't meet the minimum guidelines for a melee map. There must be at least 2 goldmines per player on the map to ensure each player has a second base. There is no creep camps and also the terrain is too plain and simple.
But I am not trying to create a random wasteland/valley/mountain with either more random-ness or symmetry within. Consider this a special melee map, kinda like Arena Melee. I am also not creating a map with more, more, more resources. I am creating scarcity, and including quick melee deathmatch in it. I am also not caring for the terrain, because that is the last thing you will notice here. But as you can see I didn't just use grass, and random woods. I actually made a symmetrical pattern, to ensure balance
You are following some guidelines for a standard melee map. This isn't a standard melee map. Its special - not saying its awesomely unique, but its special.
I'd ask you this: what if you like it?
Just, drop the code for a moment. Stop considering this a fail. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. You like fast, unique deathmatch? I am saying this is one. D/l it, play it with AI or host it.
However, I have noticed the negative responses - I am quite aware of their arguments too (they are weak ones if that).
To attempt to meet the requirements for the Hive's guidelines and to expand the idea a little further: the map could be increased by (let's say) another 16-24 spaces. Add another layer of squares.
Example
The shop areas would allow for hero manipulation (they can be goblin lab's or merchants or something) and the map could be setup for a horizontal 2v2 tug-style melee. The shop areas could have no-build tiles, reinforcing the idea of space management.
However, I have noticed the negative responses - I am quite aware of their arguments too (they are weak ones if that).
To attempt to meet the requirements for the Hive's guidelines and to expand the idea a little further: the map could be increased by (let's say) another 16-24 spaces. Add another layer of squares.
The shop areas would allow for hero manipulation (they can be goblin lab's or merchants or something) and the map could be setup for a horizontal 2v2 tug-style melee. The shop areas could have no-build tiles, reinforcing the idea of space management.
Anyways, good idea and simple concept.
Thank you for the support :)
Well, to say the least that what you said made my "unoriginal, plain, simple" map - entertaining. I am glad that atleast one person knows the fun I am talking about.
Anyway, in mostly any custom map I'd create, I'd agree with you that compromise is needed for map to get approved. And what you suggested is a way to get my map approved. But I'm sure you realized that it will also kill the concept of "micro management"
You see, if I create it like you drew it (and the concept you suggest is very good) I will kill my map's main idea. It will be like another melee map where you will indeed have limited build space, but you will also have time, will have freedom to expand and most important - you will be able to mass an army, just like in any melee map. You would also not need of any tactics and strategies I said are crucial right now, because your base will be, more or less safe and far away.
I'd agree with the extra four gold mines and the shops being on un-build-able terrain, if only it wouldn't kill the fun in - scarcity. The thing that I love about my map is there is little to go around. There is limited supply of anything and if you can't control what you got, you won't win, no matter what. That is the unique experience I was ranting about in all the posts.
Currently my map is like marriage - being approved is like finding a girl and get married. Do you have to sell your balls in order to get a girl?
I would answer: THE HELL I WILL if asked that question. And that is why I know that even though my map might be rejected, it will be by people that don't like it. Others who like the map will download it, have fun and not care.
Once again, thank you for the support. I hope you D/led the map and had fun :)
I used to do these with Wc2.
the map kind of resembles the Wc2 map that people used to play which you got least amount of space and have to built to get units out of your own space to another
,the gameplay was significantly changed in Wc3 so it Never had any of these simple ones.
make one like XenoStalker suggested that's surely gona have more potential.
So does everything have the same cost as the original WC3 units or have you edited at all? Personally, I don't think the rules really apply to this map because it isn't possible to fit 2 goldmines per player and that is the entire concept of your map. Honestly, I like the idea of it, and can see where strategy is important.
Where are the Melee Map guidelines anyways? Or are they made up? Link please ;o
If you think, all melee maps require each player to have atleast another base therefore its 2 goldmines per player on each map. Also the terrain has to be balanced enough to enable all players to reach the goldmines equally. The creep camps and item drops must be balanced and shops, fountains, etc be lay out evenly across the map if any or atleast have an equal distance for each player.
