Heroes and Empires v4.0 Advanced

[FreakyShirley]

u have permission from the original creator to edit his map?

[deth_lord]

i've spoken with him and he's not against it. more of a neutral whatever stance as long as he gets credit he don't care and he does.

[sonicstorm]

After reading the description i've got no idea what ur map is about. Please add more detail about the game play. The description is't very interering 4 me. So try 2 fix the description.

[deth_lord]

Originally Posted by sonicstorm

After reading the description i've got no idea what ur map is about. Please add more detail about the game play. The description is't very interering 4 me. So try 2 fix the description.

better?

[sonicstorm]

It's ok 4 me now n may be some others 2. Good job!

[ArnaudB]

Loved the override for host ^^ waited for it so long. Anyway can you also change these few things ?
-Make heroes in high difficulties (specially undefeatable and God Play) start to lvl 2/3/4 because else it's unplayable (can't exp) and empire totally dependent.
-Reduce Workshop size (a little to big from me point compared to other Builder's Building)
-Change the spell of sweatshop to a fixed income of tp... that'd be a lot better.
-Increase this income, a trader give 2/3 times more with only his skill tp/min lvl 1.
-Make starvation a LOT harder for empire, to avoid the "technique" of mass gold, consisting of massing tax & rations and no farm, that way you can have Hundred of thousand gold and go to future age in 20 min (i've personnaly done it). About that my idea would be to increase the people dying in house more and more each time the player has 0 food so that no-one can use this imba bug.
(if you wonder how player survive, i'll remind you that towers doesn't die neither rebel from starvation/unhappiness)

And THANK YOU a lot for updating this map which i consider as the best of WC3 !

[deth_lord]

Originally Posted by ArnaudB

-Make heroes in high difficulties (specially undefeatable and God Play) start to lvl 2/3/4 because else it's unplayable (can't exp) and empire totally dependent.

that makes no sense... the point of a higher difficulty is to be harder, not easier. thanks for the other comments though i'll look into it ^-^
i do realize however that harder difficulties almost do nothing to empires and almost entirely to heroes. so i'll be changing a few things for that in the next update. also just heard about a bug when you grab the potion for the quest that crashes the game. so expect an update in 2-3 days

[ArnaudB]

Originally Posted by ArnaudB
-Make heroes in high difficulties (specially undefeatable and God Play) start to lvl 2/3/4 because else it's unplayable (can't exp) and empire totally dependent.

I aggree with you, the problem (you said it) is that empire aren't at all affected by the difficulty at start but heroes does and can't even exp alone, that's why i think it's do being a little problem.
Either way i am more an empire player so i can't confirm the bug.
A few others thing :
-Increase the chariot hp (event in camp) while the game progress, 100 hp, even with fortified armor is way too less later and generally players that know it stop taking quest in camp because they are so hard and can increase Kalendren strenght.
-Add a cannon tower for empire, i have wondered why does empire don't have cannon tower when at industrial age you have a AOE tower anti-ground unit and when you have the right model in WC3.
-Reduce mortar power, ultimate infantry unit they are completly imba compared to other ultimate unit with the profile, i'd recommand a little down in projectile speed and attack speed.
-Add a second attack to the destroyer and tank with "magic" attack so they can down obelisk and camp, it's seem always really stupid when 12 ultimate unit tank, destroyer in fact, doesn't damage at all those building (same with infantry anyway, i always use priest to take down building).
-Add a tooltips in the cavalery building to precise with profile affect the cavalery, it's confusing because cavalery aren't infantry, are often close of tank (ex : Rise of Nations) but their building is airplanes so...
-I think we should do something about lich spell building-killer, it's just so fine against empire because it often beat uncomplete empire defence but for heros builder it completly destroy their tower easily, may be a little troublesome (not really sure if we should change that, but have to keep it in mind).
-Reduce mercenaries evolution for general heroes so that mercenary aren't at lvl of heroes 20-30 two or three times stronger that the heros, it make absolutly no sense (i never take general anymore since it's impossible to lose as long as you know how to use a few units, not even mentionning "God Horn".)
-And finally i'd like you to fix something which i don't considerer very fair, when you are empire and an heros that you helped (cause they can't survive alone at start etc.....) betray you they can teleport in your own town and often down everything. I just think that when heroes become ennemy with you they should be throw out of your city, it'd specially make less people annoyed, i have saw already 4 people who stopped H&E in public because of that kind of trachery. Tought i precise it's easy to counter, since Anti-Heroes tower are so strong, just 2-3 in your city 100% protect you... except if you hired the heros for 50% of your income ofc.

(Sorry for my bad habit of writting tons of things at once, i can never make short comments)
Anyway good luke and if you need my help (testing or in the world editor to make something) just call me.

[zelot666]

Sick of people assuming that if you take someones map and edit it that the original creator has any say so in the matter. I hate to(lies I love it) be the one to tell you all this but anything you put on the internet is going to be taken, broken down, copied, then defiled with some large round object. Just be glad that the legend of what it is lives on rather then who made it. 1/2 the time people don't even care who made it unless it sucks. Also stop trying to defend the "original" creator by saying things like "do you have permission" because no one cares about permission. The world would be a far different place if we actually gave a damn about what other people think. That being said please feel free to ignore this, I know you will.

[hunters1]

I dont know if its only when i host but the quest for magical potion causes wc3 to experiecne fatal error and does it to multiple ppl (some times 2 or 3 ppl stay in game) and i got a fatal error after saying not to get the magical potion (dont know what caused it may be the magical potion from some idiot who ignored me) but besides that I LOVE THE MAP (not really good at map balancing so i can only report bugs )

[deth_lord]

yea, i haven't been able to update the map as fast as i wanted to. been busy playing other games... but those are 1 shot games i'll finish them in about 2-3 days and i'll go back to working on map.
game i'm playing: overlord 2
try it it's pretty fun.

[ArnaudB]

I finished Overlord 1, way too easy and the mobs are too stupiddd (well the whole game is, not always a bad point tought).
About H&E :
-Could you make heroes choose whether they gain exp or trade points tought the pay of empire, it's a bit annoying to never know what you'll get and it's often a problem in late game when the heros want to buy a strong item (God Horn 75% of the time rox^^).

-If that is possible, i said "IF", can you make the possiblity 3x3 house aside of 1x1 actual house (comparing to house size). Only for the mansion, last stage for house.
The point of that is to reduce lag, in other world i want that we can pick 9 houses, destroy them all, and replace with another big house which have the addition of mana of the other old.
This would ofc cost a bit of resource, the objective is to reduce lag in late game, because when you have 60 houses x 5 empires it's increase the chance of fatal error and lag (fatal error happens when to many houses + when one empire ran power out)

[Dr Super Good]

-Rebalanced empires making workers and huts cost more and farms to produce less per farm
-Added new skin for X

Something tells me you have little idea of what you are doing...
Empires are weak enough already as they are, atleast in the last offical Heroes and Empires versions I played.
A hero is easilly able to kill an empire before he can establish himself. Also farms produced too little as it was and needed insane tech levels to achieve anything.

Instead of wrapping heroes in new skins and stuff like that, more pressing ballence issues should have been addressed.

The rangers multishot makes her extreemly powerful and godly late game. It would be advisable to reduce the number of targets or her range.

As for empires stat exploits, rations should be rationalized to solve this. People are only able to eat so much, thus logically there should be a cap on rations, probably in the range of 15 to 20. Equally well with tax there should be a cap on it as people only earn so much at around about 10 or 12.

Empires payout to hired heroes should be based on their income and stuff. Thus late game the hero with low pay should be getting hefty EXP and more trade points than even a high payoff early on. Currently tradepoints are related to pay rate levels, thus low pay levels give no tradepoints. (in 7.3)

To reduce lag, there are two options. Firstly simply boot everyone with a shit PC as this game is demanding. Secondly optimize the pop system further. You may wish to try a less accurate threaded update over time approach with only the calulations run every interval rather than the full update each interval. Doing this would mean that the load could remain near constant no matter the empire size.

Also for empires a "pop shair" system would be nice. Whereby new buildings automatically are filled by draining pop from nearby or random houses to speed up development and make it more realistic.

An research que system would be nice as well to help reduce wasted time.

Also the one enemy hero with the AoE stun (lich I think) needs a nerf. The stun lasts horendiously long late game during which time you are totally ususless. Maybe a hero reduction would be advisable. Like wise the curse from the dreadlord should at high levels lower accuracy more but have a hero duration reduction.

However you really just need to focus on optimizing the triggers so that it lag less. Ofcourse I take it you are highly skilled with JASS, as it would be silly for someone without that skill to even consider taking on such a high quality map as this.

[ArnaudB]

Originally Posted by Dr Super Good

Something tells me you have little idea of what you are doing...
Empires are weak enough already as they are, atleast in the last offical Heroes and Empires versions I played.
-> Yeah because the farm are so big in official version,with mini-farm of hacked version it does be a lot easier because in fact farm cost lower. However with big farm i think they should not cost more but instead give more food, or at least we should being able to upgrade farm so that we don't have to spam 1/4 of the map with farm...

A hero is easilly able to kill an empire before he can establish himself. Also farms produced too little as it was and needed insane tech levels to achieve anything.
->Not fully aggred, an empire can easily take down heroes if he do it quickly, specially if you play in high difficulty (which i always do), 2-3 anti heroes towers INSIDE your base and you can down anyone coming in.

Instead of wrapping heroes in new skins and stuff like that, more pressing ballence issues should have been addressed.
-> 100% aggred (and i hate new trader skin)

The rangers multishot makes her extreemly powerful and godly late game. It would be advisable to reduce the number of targets or her range.
->agreed, specially on ranger which is way too strong with multishoot, anyone knowing the game almost always take him since multishoort & nova make him so overpower (nova is very usefull in low lvl)

As for empires stat exploits, rations should be rationalized to solve this. People are only able to eat so much, thus logically there should be a cap on rations, probably in the range of 15 to 20. Equally well with tax there should be a cap on it as people only earn so much at around about 10 or 12.
->May be interesting, but from my point of view, rations could also be confort, i mean Rations could also be related to the lvl of life, not only food, then it'd make more sense to wave 50 rations.

Empires payout to hired heroes should be based on their income and stuff. Thus late game the hero with low pay should be getting hefty EXP and more trade points than even a high payoff early on. Currently tradepoints are related to pay rate levels, thus low pay levels give no tradepoints. (in 7.3)
->True, Tradepoints are way too hard to gain if you aren't a trader in the actual game (except in those H&E maps with the 1000 tp wood...)

To reduce lag, there are two options. Firstly simply boot everyone with a shit PC as this game is demanding. Secondly optimize the pop system further. You may wish to try a less accurate threaded update over time approach with only the calulations run every interval rather than the full update each interval. Doing this would mean that the load could remain near constant no matter the empire size.
->Actually a Dual Core is highly recommanded, it's the only way to avoid crash when an empire ran power off, i tested with 2 computer, the one with simple Core crashed, no the one with Dual Core.

Also for empires a "pop shair" system would be nice. Whereby new buildings automatically are filled by draining pop from nearby or random houses to speed up development and make it more realistic.
->Not bad if it doesn't make everything lagger, however i keep the idea of 3x3 house first.

An research que system would be nice as well to help reduce wasted time.
-> TOTALLY AGGRED, the one to do that would be praised by me for life !

Also the one enemy hero with the AoE stun (lich I think) needs a nerf. The stun lasts horendiously long late game during which time you are totally ususless. Maybe a hero reduction would be advisable. Like wise the curse from the dreadlord should at high levels lower accuracy more but have a hero duration reduction.
->i said something like that too

However you really just need to focus on optimizing the triggers so that it lag less. Ofcourse I take it you are highly skilled with JASS, as it would be silly for someone without that skill to even consider taking on such a high quality map as this.
->True, i saw the trigger of a hacked map of H&E one time, it really need a skilled one

Well good luke