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Round Table of Arkain

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

Level 29
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
2,678
Shar Dundred said:
Ouch.
Click to expand...

Sorry but both in mine and DD Mikasa's perspective it is. Ever since they rejected Vanessa's idea I no longer give a damn about the orcs. There are no many plot twists or plot developments compared to the other books. The characters as I said before are too one-dimensional and the plot is meh.
-Humans: A race fighting against an upcoming demonic invasion while dealing with conspiracies and treasons.
-Undeads: the ancient protectors of Arkain who are preparing themselves to defend their world.
-Orcs: Their whole plot was just uniting the clans and conquer lands. In the end they are nearly destroyed by the demons and force to flee. The whole story was practically meaningless.
 

Shar Dundred

Shar Dundred

Shar Dundred

Community Moderator
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Messages
5,872
No offense taken.

Well, I can understand the dislike, but you have to look at it like this:
The Orcs were close to annihilation several times, they lack a real economy and are a race of war. Also they were ignorant to the strength of the Demon invasion. The final of the First Orc Book teached them a hard lesson.
About Vanessa: I think all of you, who read the story of what changed her while being imprisoned, can understand why the Orcs aren't trusting her anymore. Of course, they don't know all of that story, but still.
 

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

Level 29
Joined
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Messages
2,678
Shar Dundred said:
No offense taken.

Well, I can understand the dislike, but you have to look at it like this:
The Orcs were close to annihilation several times, they lack a real economy and are a race of war. Also they were ignorant to the strength of the Demon invasion. The final of the First Orc Book teached them a hard lesson.
About Vanessa: I think all of you, who read the story of what changed her while being imprisoned, can understand why the Orcs aren't trusting her anymore. Of course, they don't know all of that story, but still.
Click to expand...

I thought they no longer trusted because she was against the onslaught of humans. She believed that not all humans should be killed but rather used. It is like Vanessa acting as Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil while the orcs act Chaotic Evil.
 

YetAnotherYoutuber

YetAnotherYoutuber

YetAnotherYoutuber

Level 7
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Jun 9, 2015
Messages
237
Have you seen her powerpowerpower talk? If you happen to read her
encounter with a mysterious power-filled stranger (from her perspective)
which changed her perspective on humans, you will see what her
„save all the powerful humans”, means.

In other words, notice how she cares only about power from siege of kome onwards
 

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

Level 29
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Mar 28, 2015
Messages
2,678
Flour said:
Have you seen her powerpowerpower talk? If you happen to read her
encounter with a mysterious power-filled stranger (from her perspective)
which changed her perspective on humans, you will see what her
„save all the powerful humans”, means.

In other words, notice how she cares only about power from siege of kome onwards
Click to expand...

I know she is obsessed with power. But she sees that sparing some humans can prove to be fruitful, while the orcs only care about killing them all, regardless if its consequences might be good or not.
Lawful Evil are capable of killing, but only when they see it as convenient. They will not kill innocents if such innocents can pay them quite well. They are pragmatic.
Chaotic Evil are capable of doing anything. They would gladly burn a village to the ground just for the fun of it even if it would be better letting such village intact.
 

Shain Dundred

Shain Dundred

Shain Dundred

Level 3
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
22
I think you're focusing too much on those alignments and are giving the Orcs less credit than they'd deserve. While I agree that they don't deserve much credit, they're not the simpleminded beasts you think they are.
The Orcs struggle for survival. Yes, the fact that they've been pillaging and killing Humans for all the years makes them look like mindless brutes, but it's the only way for them to survive. Their race has to be strong in order to be able to survive and for the Orcs, the only way to become strong, is to fight. They know the meaning of honor and it's not their ultimate plan to kill all the Humans for the sake of killing them - Vanessa is prime example that the Orcs aren't just killing all Humans without thinking. Yes, many were against this and yes, by now Vanessa isn't the Orcs' favorite ally, but think more about the fact that the Orcs hesitated to kill a little girl that could perhaps, one day, give birth to future knights who could be future enemies of the Orcs. Instead, they adopted her and, even if it took a while, she was accepted in her clan. If she hadn't changed that much, she probably would've been accepted by the other clans as well - even Rath, yes, I'm pretty sure about that.
The big thing is that the Orcs and the Humans are sworn enemies. When the Demons crushed the Orcs, the Humans took their chance and hunted the Orcs down, one by one, destroyed whole clans and even worse. You give the Humans more credit than they deserve, yes, they ARE fighting the Demons and also the traitors, but think about the reason for that: No Orc would ever side with the Demons while some Humans join them to gain power - or because they're enslaved, but that's another matter. The Humans are driven by a racist doctrine: Everything non-human, non-elven and non-dwarven is an enemy and has to be crushed. Remember what General Greymoore did: He ordered the absolute annihilation of an entire clan (For the Orcs one clan means as much as a kingdom for the Humans.) without any hesitation. He didn't care about the consequences either.
About the Undead: Yes, they might be the most reasonable race of Arkain, but they're also very ruthless. For the Undead, the life of a mortal is nothing, all that matters is the balance of Arkain - the balance doesn't mean that any race has to survive. In fact, all non-undead races being dead, would be the perfect balance for Arkain. The Undead would sacrifice everything, yes even other races, to ensure their so-called balance. Yes, they want the Demon invasion to be ended, but they also don't want the Demons to be destroyed by the other races since the Demons belong to the balance just like the other races (unless ALL races are being killed, that would ensure balance as well in a way).

Overall, one can say, that no faction is "really" good or really "bad".
 

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

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Shain Dundred said:
I think you're focusing too much on those alignments and are giving the Orcs less credit than they'd deserve. While I agree that they don't deserve much credit, they're not the simpleminded beasts you think they are.
Click to expand...

Maybe you are right that I focused too much on the alignements. But in a war a true strategist must keep a mind open to all possibilities. Sometimes sparing some enemies might prove to be better than killing all.
A tyrant will not kill everyone in an enemy kingdom, because otherwise he would not have new subjects and therefore new taxes to get money from. The orcs could have started the tradition of raising human orphans as new soldiers, like Rangul did with Vanessa.

If she hadn't changed that much, she probably would've been accepted by the other clans as well - even Rath, yes, I'm pretty sure about that.
Click to expand...

Actually Rath was against rescuing her from the knights, and he most likely never met her before. Rath and his clan are the ones who have more reasons to despise humans in general.

You give the Humans more credit than they deserve, yes, they ARE fighting the Demons and also the traitors, but think about the reason for that: No Orc would ever side with the Demons while some Humans join them to gain power - or because they're enslaved, but that's another matter. The Humans are driven by a racist doctrine: Everything non-human, non-elven and non-dwarven is an enemy and has to be crushed. Remember what General Greymoore did: He ordered the absolute annihilation of an entire clan (For the Orcs one clan means as much as a kingdom for the Humans.) without any hesitation. He didn't care about the consequences either.
Click to expand...

I despise the humans too, don´t get me wrong. For all their talks about honor, decency and justice, the humans are a race so easily driven by revenge (Blen when he slaughtered the Darkmind clan) and greed (Genethas and Aedale).
They call orcs savages for slaughtering villages and their solution? Lets wipe out a clan?:vw_wtf: That is pure hypocrisy.
The elves are not saints either. They wanted imperial support without giving anything in return. Now their queen made a secret pact in order to escape alongside her subjects to the other side of the sea, while leaving humans and dwarves standing against the demons.


About the Undead: Yes, they might be the most reasonable race of Arkain, but they're also very ruthless. For the Undead, the life of a mortal is nothing, all that matters is the balance of Arkain - the balance doesn't mean that any race has to survive. In fact, all non-undead races being dead, would be the perfect balance for Arkain. The Undead would sacrifice everything, yes even other races, to ensure their so-called balance. Yes, they want the Demon invasion to be ended, but they also don't want the Demons to be destroyed by the other races since the Demons belong to the balance just like the other races (unless ALL races are being killed, that would ensure balance as well in a way).
Click to expand...

I never claimed undeads to be the good guys, but they are like a necessary evil. The other races are fighting for survival or domination, while the undeads are maintaining balance, even at the cost of millions.
I like the undead because of this: they raise others regardless of their races. They have humans, elfs, nerubians and even demons in their ranks; races that in life would kill each other. I know this cooperation is through Aridon's control but even so it is fascinating.


Overall, one can say, that no faction is "really" good or really "bad".
Click to expand...

That is true. Both sides have their own flaws and qualities.
 

Shain Dundred

Shain Dundred

Shain Dundred

Level 3
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
22
LISBOAH said:
Maybe you are right that I focused too much on the alignements. But in a war a true strategist must keep a mind open to all possibilities. Sometimes sparing some enemies might prove to be better than killing all.
A tyrant will not kill everyone in an enemy kingdom, because otherwise he would not have new subjects and therefore new taxes to get money from. The orcs could have started the tradition of raising human orphans as new soldiers, like Rangul did with Vanessa.
Click to expand...

Perhaps such a tradition would become part of the orc culture if the whole Vanessa thing ends well, I don't know.
However, if I had to choose between being "used" (which sounds like enslaved here) and being killed, I'd personally prefer we latter.

LISBOAH said:
Actually Rath was against rescuing her from the knights, and he most likely never met her before. Rath and his clan are the ones who have more reasons to despise humans in general.
Click to expand...

Yes, he was. Because he didn't get to know her. Perhaps he would've liked her if they had spent more time together, we'll never know.

LISBOAH said:
They call orcs savages for slaughtering villages and their solution? Lets wipe out a clan?:vw_wtf: That is pure hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

Taking revenge, I guess, but yeah, as you can see, both sides are hating each other.

LISBOAH said:
The elves are not saints either. They wanted imperial support without giving anything in return. Now their queen made a secret pact in order to escape alongside her subjects to the other side of the sea, while leaving humans and dwarves standing against the demons.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the queen is pretty... bitchy, to put it nicely.

LISBOAH said:
I never claimed undeads to be the good guys, but they are like a necessary evil. The other races are fighting for survival or domination, while the undeads are maintaining balance, even at the cost of millions.
Click to expand...

That's true. My point was just that the Undead are everything but saints.

LISBOAH said:
I like the undead because of this: they raise others regardless of their races. They have humans, elfs, nerubians and even demons in their ranks; races that in life would kill each other. I know this cooperation is through Aridon's control but even so it is fascinating.
Click to expand...

Well, their undeath makes them all become members of the same race, in a way - the Undead - but yes, this concept is pretty fascinating.

LISBOAH said:
That is true. Both sides have their own flaws and qualities.
Click to expand...

Indeed.
 

kart72

kart72

kart72

Level 2
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
12
Do trebuchets give vision on like half the map(==attack range)?
if they do I beg of you to aske the terrain maker to refrain from using narrow passes and turnpoints. Running under trebuchet fire will be even harder when it's randomly joined by archers/flyiers/catapults/mages in whose range you just stumbled
Imagine charging down the lane microing troops to avoid getting hit AAAND your hero gets stunned.
I presume the terrain is already made but could you please see if there are situations like that?
Even a little warning would be nice(like yes there will be narrow turns turned slaughterpits after a couple stuns)
 

DD Mikasa

DD Mikasa

DD Mikasa

Level 20
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
1,084
Oh...Time to resume this wonderful experience.

Edit:Fuck those huge ass trebuchets...F U C K E M.
 
Last edited:

DD Mikasa

DD Mikasa

DD Mikasa

Level 20
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
1,084
Shar Dundred said:
None of you got the idea to move his units all few seconds to evade the missiles?^^
Or to use the shadows to take out most of the trebuchet's defenses and then destroy the bastards?
Click to expand...

I am already done with the mission.Seems you can use the shadows to destroy the orange base,Then you go on and destroy the trebuchets in the middle and then the teal undead base.

Anyway one question...If the fallen Arch mage was brought back to life as an undead why did you you use the ghost model...
 

Morris

Morris

Morris

Level 9
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Messages
352
Im having a problem on chapter 3
whenever I destroy the orange bass town hall
the game breaks down and exits the whole thing :/
 

DD Mikasa

DD Mikasa

DD Mikasa

Level 20
Joined
Dec 19, 2013
Messages
1,084
Blake8 said:
Holy crap....we really need to start with a hero in chapter 4, especially one with a useful aura, otherwise things get pretty messy
Click to expand...

Not really.2 elites 1 greywolf 2 crossbowman 2 healers and a few def towers are more than enough to defend your base(One for the left and on for the right,the far side of your base is not attacked that offten)

As for an offensive force.

I use 5 executioners,1 greywolf,4 crossbowman,2 siege golems,3 healers and 3 hydromancers.

Just take out the blue base first.

Then kill all of your offensive force and build a army of Shadow stalkers to snipe out the orange base in the left side of the city from here on you will have no troubles to destroy the rest of the basses.
 

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

LISBOAH

Level 29
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
2,678
Shar Dundred said:
Version 0.11 released

General:
- Replaced Deathlord's Unholy Regeneration ability with Raise Zombie
- Minor fixes and tweaks

Chapter Three:
- Removed game-breaking bug from orange AI

Chapter Four:
- Slightly decreased difficulty
Click to expand...

Define 'slightly decreased", if you don´t mind.
 
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