Warcraft 3: Ages of Change (Altered Melee)

[Rafinius]

NOW HAS A DOWNLOADABLE ALPHA MAP
Updated

Changelog

version 0.2a - Fixed many bugs and typos. Also slight balancing changes. ca. 20% of the map is finished.

I am creating an altered melee map where your race changes dependent on what hero you choose.
Done till now is:

Cathedral
Summons and Revives your Paladin.
BONUS:
+ Health, mana, damage and regeneration for melee and priests.
Exorcist (Ranged Anti-Undead, can learn Purge and Magic Sentry)
Protector (Sturdy melee with Taunt and Greater Defense)
Apprentice Paladin (Strong melee with Heal, Anti-Magic Shell and Resurrect)
WEAKNESS:
No Rifleman, Sorceress, Spell Breaker, Dragonhawk Rider, Black Gunpowder and Workshop.


Great Forge
Summons and Revives your Mountain King.
BONUS:
Extra stats for all dwarfs, mechanical and miners.
Does not need to build Blacksmith.
Upgradeable Cannon Tower.
+ 1 level to all multi-leveled upgrades
+ Mining
Axethrower (Ranged unit that can go melee to become stronger)
Dwarfen Miner (sturdy peasant with improved gold mining. can't build all buildings)
Thane (Dwarf Knight with Charge)
WEAKNESS:
No Arcane Sanctum.
No Knights and Dragonhawk Riders.


Quel'thalan Palace
Summons and Revives your Bloodmage.
BONUS:
Extra mana and damage and for all elves.
Elves drain mana on hit.
Archer (Basic ranged unit that can learn frost and fire arrows).
Blood Knight (Strong melee leader with versatile abilities)
Destroyer (siege caster that can freeze buildings).
WEAKNESS:
No Workshop.
No Riflemen and Griphon Riders.
Less mana regen.


Violet Tower
Summons and Revives your Archmage.
BONUS:
Extra mana, mana regeneration and damage for all casters.
Gains gold when completing researches.
Extra hit points for buildings.
Extra attack for towers.
Special effects on many units attacks. (under development)
Architect (Special Builder) (under development)
Mage (Mounted caster with Firebolt, Frost Armor and Crushing Wave)
Arcane Agent (Versatile caster, adept at infiltration and disruption)
Has 1 Arcane Sanctum for free.

(Balancing till now is almost only done with the eye).

What I need from the community is help with the different questions below (links point to different threads dedicated to these question). And of course I would love some playtesting and feedback.
Questions till now:

• I want to create a phoenix fire based frost skill that slows the enemies instead of burning them and need help with the triggers.

• I want to create a ward that should be Ethereal and when the Arcane Agent summons a new ward the old one should die.

• It would be nice, if possible, to give the Arcane Agent the ability to Shadow Meld during day and night

• I need 5 Icons for Tier 4 versions of the 5 human Upgrades.

• I am trying to fix a gamebreaking bug of the Arcane Agent. Details here

• After uploading, I am open for suggestions (especially balancing).

 

[SeleKinz]

Wow this project sounds good if you need my help...i'd love to participate

 

[Rafinius]

Well for now I only have the 3 questions lined at the end of the post. As soon as I have the Archmage Army playable I'll post an alpha version for Humans only.

 

[SeleKinz]

Ok that sounds good then!

 

[Rafinius]

Well I found 2 icons for my Exorcist and can't decide witch one to choose...
This one fits best but is kind of generic (aka boring) and doesn't have a warcraft feel to it and this one looks cool (especially the blue eyes) but has elvish features.

 

[SeleKinz]

Well I found 2 icons for my Exorcist and can't decide witch one to choose...
This one fits best but is kind of generic (aka boring) and doesn't have a warcraft feel to it and this one looks cool (especially the blue eyes) but has elvish features.

Actually i would go with the second one...caus if you look carefully at the first one its exacly the icon of a elf worker. So i suggest you go with the second one! It might have a little elf touch...but it still looks better especially with the blue eyes

 

[Rafinius]

Added the backstory so that more people get the idea of what this is about. (Much of the wow story pre crusade is deemed as cannon, but only little of the 2 expansions and nothing of cataclysm).
Also here is a list of what I want to do before uploading the map:
Finish the Mage
Balance the Agents concept and implement her
Add 1 more upgrade (Magic Weaponry)
Think about what exactly the Architect can do and implement him

 

[SeleKinz]

Sounds good...and slot of work to do

 

[Rafinius]

I am noticing that this name is too boring and generic (and similar to the ancient map Aeon of Strife making people think this is a AoS map). I think for now I will change the name in to Ages of Change, at least until i find a better name.

 

[Rafinius]

I know double posting is bad but I think announcing the downloadable alpha version is worth it. To test it please choose humans only. I will keep the map protected till I reached at least beta testing.

 

[Dj0z]

So that means you can only get 1 hero, or do those chanegs add up?

 

[MogulKahn]

I think this map is very good and original.^^

 

[Rafinius]

@Dj0z: Yes It means you only get one hero, and that you have to choose what boons you want.

PS: Many bugs appeared when I transferred all the contend of my map into a new terrain. These bugs are easy but time consuming to fix and at the moment I don't have that time.
I will update the map as soon as I fix them.

 

[Rafinius]

Update Bump. All except one bugs fixed (see second last request at the topic starter post). Humans are still the only playable race tho Well at least they split in to 4 factions, meaning you have enough to playtest and feedback for now
I will add a changelog as soon as I learn how to hide text using a hide/show button

 

[GhostThruster]

Well, here I am.
Downloading and testing.
For those 5 icons, you can simply add some more flames, a background, and recolour it. That's basically what Blizzard did with the Iron Forged Swords.

Hide button>> [ H I D D E N = "Write title here"] Write text here [ / H I D D E N]<<Remove spaces in those

Hidden

s.

Example

Hello!

 

[Rafinius]

uhh...I don't really know how to edit icons...
Also thanks for the hidden thing (+rep)

 

[GhostThruster]

Tested the map.

Here are some general tips:
Try to add a custom map preview. This could range from a simple image of text made in paint to detailed and precise artwork.
Provide a good description for the map, detailing the map's functions, a SMALL proportion of the storyline, a changelog, screenies, and how the map is played or give tips to improve playing.
Most importantly, put effort into it. Work your ass off on it, listen to other people's opinions and feedback, and consistently update it when you can.

I've only tested the Mountain King so far:
There are several bad points to this subrace. Lets start with cosmetics. You need to use custom models for some of the units. A rogue for an axethrower isn't pretty, and I know there is a dwarf axethrower on the Hive already. Also, a lot of the icons are crap. Like the model for the Axethrower, the icon doesn't fit. You simply can request an icon from someone and they don't take much space. This means get rid of the Garithos icon for the stag rider and the Militia icon for the Dwarf Workers. One thing I did in my map was simply take screenshots of the models' portraits using the Warcraft 3 viewer, cut some bits out and then add borders using the Button Manager, this is simple, quick and easy. Both tools can be downloaded at the tools section of THW.
The balancing is mediocre, as the dwarves lack a healer, which every race has. Every race must have at least a worker, basic melee, basic ranged, heavy melee, primary caster, support caster, anti-mage, siege, flyer, and ultimate.
Here's the dwarf techtree so far:
worker-peasant
basic melee-footman
basic ranged-rifleman
heavy melee-Thane
siege-mortar team
siege 2-siege engine
flyer-Flying Machine
Ultimate-gryphon rider

The axethrower, as well as the Miner are roleless additional units that do not have specific purposes (We've got footmen and riflemen to cover the Axethrower, and Peasants to cover the Miner).
I don't like the idea of one hero. The abilities and balance is good, but your entire army can only carry 6 items (excluding backpack units).
Also, you have spammed upgrades. I'd say that you should replace upgrades with more units. Do you really need 5 tiers of blacksmith upgrades? And you have also spammed abilities as well (Hardened Skin, etc).

Here is an example dwarf race:
worker-peasant
basic melee-footman
basic ranged-rifleman
heavy melee-Thane(same model, but a lot weaker. he is on a ram, and has over 1000hp and hero attack?)
primary caster-Axemaster(Axethrower/Slayer(both found on the Hive) model); Boomerang(like Chain Lightning with axe missile, but increases damage with every bounce),Armor Pierce(Decreases the target's armor by X),Decapitation(Takes 5 seconds casting time, when finished casting instantly kills a non-hero organic ground unit, but the spell is interrupted by attacks, spells, or the target moving 300 away from the caster)
support caster-Engineer(a gnome dude);Bionic Surgery(Heals, but permanently reduces max hp, can't target heroes),Mechanical Mastery(Drains mana while activated, but acts like a healing aura for mechanical units), Magnetic Mine(creates a mine that drags nearby mechanical units towards it, and detonates after X seconds)
anti-mage-Mana Forger(a dwarf made of stone, like the Mountain King Avatar);Iron Will(Deflects spells onto an enemy that is within range),Mana Forge(creates a void hole that sucks nearby enemies' mana and gives it to nearby allies)
siege-mortar team
siege 2-siege engine
flyer-Flying Machine
ultimate-Gryphon rider

Overview:
Good Points:
Nice, fresh idea
Variety of play styles
If done well, will become very popular

Bad Points:
Right now, too much upgrades and not enough units
Custom models and icons needed!

Overall:
This map has a lot of potential. Despite all the stuff I wrote above, this map is very good. Just think about my suggestions. When it is complete, it will be spectacular. Keep up the good work. Right now, taking in the fact it is pre-Alpha, 88/100 ie. 4.4/5.

 

[Rafinius]

First of all I want to explain what the Idea behind the map is. I got the inspiration from Generals: Zero Hour. So what I want to do is not to create 4 distinct races out of each one, but instead make like 4 specializations each default race can take (like in G:ZH where the US army can split into superweapons, laser, and airforce). But instead of basing it on aspects that the race has I wanted to make one specialization path per hero for every race. And like in generals, I decided to make every spec having major weaknesses like dwarfs not having healers as the airforce in generals doesn't have tanks, and units witch stay available but not really viable as the footmen for the dwarves (or the infantry for china tank general). All this is the main reason for not taking your idea as a whole and implementing it.
Another thing is that I find the hero-centered gameplay of vanilla wc3 rather dull. Else I would have made 3 heroes for every faction by splitting up old ones (for example paladin -> crusader, ardent defender, archbishop). I even thought about weakening the heroes instead of making them stronger, but then decided against it.


Now, GhostThruster, lets answer to your post specifically.
First of all I haven't added a map preview because I don't really know how, and I thought there are more important things my map needs then me learning how to do it. That doesn't mean I will not do it in the future.
I agree with you that the map topic is looking rather unprofessional and I will work on it in the very near future. Maybe you can review it when I do so.
About the "work your ass off" part: I sadly am a very lazy person that has to collect all its willpower every morning just to get out of bed and go to school

Now about the Mountain Kings faction review. I actually chose to use only the really necessary custom models and icons to keep the downloading speed as low as possible, but your right about the axethrower. About the icon requesting, I have kinda bad experience with that...
As I already mentioned, the footman and not the axethrower, is the roleless one for the dwarves, as the axethrowers are actually stronger than the footman after the dwarven upgrades are finished.
The Miner is meant as an gold gathering boost for an food expense, and you have to choose how many peasants you dare to replace. A boost in gold can make a great difference over the course of the game.
In RoC there actually weren't many of the roles for some races like healer for UD, antimages (that orcs still don't have) ect.
The upgrade is kind of a different way to accomplish what G:ZH did (i.e. increasing the strength of the units that are tied to the spec). With the dwarfes its just a bit expensive and many tiers because i thought it would kind of balance out the dwarven bonus mining. Also the tiers are only 3-4 (one more than the other races). The Paladins group for example has several upgrades that cost 0 resources.
With the example you gave me the next step would be giving them also extra buildings. And after that making an altered melee that has 16 new races witch is not what I intend to do.
So the thane is too strong? I just wanted to make a rider that is considerably stronger than the Knight also without any upgrades (for both) as he is also considerably more expensive and the paladins knight gets 145 more hp and 2 more attack dice than the default one (not counting animal war training). Most races get a hero or chaos damage unit. So in the end all races will seem overpowered when compared to the vanilla races. The hardened skin spam is a lazy way to give all dwarves a resistance buff (as the upgrade says).
Lastly the spell ideas look nice, but I'm kinda new to triggers, and if you look at the other races you will notice that most is non-triggered (the Object editor I have mastered near to perfection).

Here is what the dwarves are at the moment (if you think that any of what I say now is bad, tell me why and I'll overthink the whole faction):
The dwarves are strong in firepower, overall durability, maneuverability with siege units and flyers and have an increased speed in resource gathering. This is weighted down with the fact that they gain several of their improvements slowly, have a plethora of costs, are initially weak in melee, and lack casters and replenishment effects.
As a recap dwarfs can become very strong in both quantity and quality, but they attack straight forward, and what gets damaged, often stays damaged. That's the reason they have the increased resistance upgrade.

Thanks for the review, but the problem with unit suggestions is that I have this vision of my map (for good or bad) and things I need is balance suggestions because I fail at vanilla warcraft playing (as most people in bnets custom section and garena), bug report, presentation help (i.e. the first part of your post that was very helpful, and pointing out gamebreakingly imba things or useless units. The axethrower for instance now that I think about it is kinda bad overall and may be replaced with something better (maybe even with something with a custom model )

EDIT: 1 question I have is: Are the many upgrades difficult to oversee and/or is there any badly written tooltip that doesn't explain as it should? Also don't take anything I said negatively. You just said your good opinion and i appreciated it, but it seemed that most your suggestions where pointing in to the direction of making a distinct dwarf race.
...I think I should start colorcoding my huge posts so that people know what I really want that they don't miss so that they don't just get intimidated by the wordwalls and turn away

 

[GhostThruster]

1.Yep, that's your choice. It's your map I understand and if you intended it to be like that game you said, then that's fine by me.

2.I wasn't talking about this map! It was just general tips! I know right now that this map is incomplete, and you already got a suitable description! In the future, when or if you'll submit this map, then you should follow those tips!

3.Dude, uploading a few models won't increase it by much. A good map has 3mb-6mb in my opinion, depending on its genre. Icons are like 6kb each, models range about 100kb.
Here is a model and icon. Axethrower[Has an icon that goes with model]. Only 94kb.
I can make icons for you. Just post a visitor message if you want me to make you icons.
I know it is a lot of work in the Object Editor making new units, but here's a trick. Go into Windows and Cancel the 'Brush List', this will make Object Editor work much quicker.
The Miner, as you explained it, is fine, but I suggest weakening your miners, thanes and axethrowers, and make different units to replace them.
In RoC, you forgot about heroes. UD had Death Knight and blight as healers. As for Anti-mages, Humans had Dispel Magic, Orcs had Purge, UD had Anti-Magic Shield, and lets not start with the Night Elves. However, it's your choice. I guess in a way that with Dwarves lacking healing, but gaining other things is balanced, and I haven't tested the other races yet. I just think it is better to weaken your extra units and add more extra units.
Like I said, I didn't test all the races, so if each of them has one hero attack unit, then that's fair. I just think it is a little unorthodox.

4. No probs. I understand that this is your map. I'm just a feedbacker. Like I did in my map, I heavily based all the units on the race archetypes already(though gotta admit Draenei are uber-imba). That is the easiest way to balance (you can use those list of roles for filling out units).

5.They are just crammed into one building, and it makes it look messy. I though you wanted to make a distinct dwarf race... Please don't colour code! All those freakin words will blind someone!

 

[Rafinius]

Ok ok I'll add the axethrower model
I don't have a problem creating units. It's just that I have the feeling that if I add many units, then there will be too many different units if I don't also remove more old ones. And if I do that it will be more like a new race
For now I will leave the basic ideas unchanged so I will not add casters to the dwarves. If they want heal they get scrolls
I don't really get the weaken... how is the axethrower and the miner overpowered? Also I looked up the thanes stats and if you don't take in account his spells and damage/armor type he is actually inferior to the Knight in every aspect (same hp, 1 less armor, 2 less damage, less AS, 20 less MS, 1 more foodcost, more gold and lumbercost). I think I actually may have to buff him on the long run.
I loled hard when I read your last sentence.
Anyways I'm tired now. It's 5:40 here in Greece. Good Night, and thanks again.

 

[GhostThruster]

Greece? I'm in Australia and you got better English than me!
Well, like I said, if you didn't want to create totally distinct sub-races then ok. Compared to the rest of the roles, Axethrower is very strong, having changing attacks and good HP, armor and damage at 2 food cost, Miner is ultimate tank compared to wisps, peons, acolytes and peasants!
About that stat comparison...it is just as biased and obvious as saying that taking away the Tauren Chieftain's hero attack, armor and spells, a fully upgraded Grunt could kill him! Or taking away the demolisher's siege attack, it wouldn't kill buildings as easily!
BUT if you have a small amount of units, then you can make them stronger to compensate for lack of numbers.

 

[Rafinius]

Heh, I'm actually German, but I live here for 11 years already. Anyways, back to the topic..
Don't forget to also compare the units from the other factions. The footman from the Paladins faction gets a total of 92 extra hitpoints and 2 extra attack dice. But I should anyways do some more the numbercrunching. Most unit costs (gold and lumber) are kind of put in semi-randomly by looking at some basic units. The miner is far stronger than any single other gatherer but he is also more expensive and costs 2 food, but isn't as strong as a footman or ghoul (he looses 1 on 1 against a militia). So the only thing you invest in is 7 extra gold per run (witch is great IMO) and a big boost in survivability to protect you from economy raids.
Also I just now saw that normal damage is better than hero damage in all regards (both hero and normal do 100% to all except that normal does 150% to medium and 70% to fortified and hero only does 100% to medium and 50% to fortified). I'm actually nerfing any unit that I give hero damage!! I think I should look in to that again... Only hero armor is actually something powerful. It gets damaged only 50% by siege, piercing and magic attacks. Maybe I should remake the whole attack/armor type table, even if that would heavily change all the units.
The examples you gave aren't as great. What you said is ripping apart the chieftain or taking away the siege attack that at the moment is the only thing that does bonus instead of heavily reduced damage to buildings... What I said with the Thane is that he is more expensive in all costs and higher in the tier, but his only benefit is that he has more resistance (hero armor), a high but temporary movement boost, and can be boosted by slightly more upgrades witch without them he would be weaker than the Knight in all stats expect hp.
What I really need to know is what costs would be more balanced, especially with the Cathedrals units, the axethrower, and the casters of the Violet Citadel. I also still have to make the architect unit for the Violet Citadel but I don't have any really nice ideas for the special buildings he should get. I'm also not sure if I should give him some kind of special ability like improved repair or something. What I already decided is that he should require a Lumbermill, cost 1 food, and build magical buildings (with abilities or auras or something, not units or upgrades) and specialized towers (no clue in what way). If you have any ideas just tell me and I'll appreciate it.

 

[-Equalizer]

what is a altered melee map?