The importance of geometry in WC3

[Daffa]

In modding, math shows value. I even studies programming and see use of math well, as Xonok explains it well

Honestly, playing Warcraft 3 with calculators? That's insane. I would rather strategize instead, given that odds are 50-50 if both are each other counter and proper strategies warrants over 70% success, naturally.

 

[Chaosy]

My reaction precisely.

 

[Warseeker]

Alright. I guess nobody likes Math! (Not even Tom Cruise!)

 

[Avahor]

I wanted to make unpredictable spell casting levels on rpg game. from Inspired casting to Devastating casting, using some "fortune" var as result of logarithm calculation. I really wanted a logarithm function written on jass and OMG, looking_for_help posted an advanced math library on Hive. My surprise was greater when I read some comments about the "pointless" of its calculator.

_{Your ideas}^{(the size of your math knowledge)} = enhanced Map creativity

 

[Flux]

Alright. I guess nobody likes Math! (Not even Tom Cruise!)

Don't get me wrong. I like math, it is very important in my profession. It's just that, I don't understand your previous post, the one with calculator while playing a melee map.

 

[PurgeandFire]

This (link might not work outside UK) is what I am talking about. Do not think it is easy as a term like "Explain fully" is not the same as simply "Explain". If you think it is easy chances are you will end up close to 0 marks. This exam is not made up, a member of my family will have to sit one like it next year.

Ah god, just looking at that test gives me war flashbacks. We have very similar tests for AP English for U.S. high schools ('Language & Composition' and 'Literature & Composition'). (AP = Advanced Placement, so you only have to take those exhausting tests if you opt for the class) The difference is that the first part would've probably been multiple choice for us (still tough and long as hell with many more passages, but at least it added a bit more objectivity to the tests).

I hated the AP English tests--you end up soo exhausted afterward and there isn't an easy way to prepare besides running through all the novels you read and preparing for potential prompts. I didn't like that part at all. Fortunately, I had solid teachers for those two courses and my writing visibly got better.

I can agree that English classes deviate from the good ol' bare-bones "learning English", but they honestly improve your writing. Perhaps Language & Composition more-so than literature, but there is still reason to fully stack yourself. I didn't really realize it until I looked back at my old papers from before those classes (and after doing peer reviews in other classes). And good writing applies to everything.

I think the teacher can make the difference. If your teacher focuses on hammering you with books and reading comprehension, you're really not going to see improvement. The key was the combination of reading, writing, and getting your thoughts out on paper. The criticism was also genuine and pretty brutal (there was a lot of ppl literally crying after essays were handed back). There was no hand-holding and it forced us to get better. My writing would probably still be shit if I didn't take those courses.

Anyway, tl;dr, standardized tests suck indeed. But I wouldn't discredit any course as impractical (at least not any "major" branch), especially in early education. It is fine to discredit it in uni when your interests have changed (hell, I haven't taken a single English course since high school). If you didn't get anything worthwhile from your English course, chances are you had a bad teacher or your school/district sucked on planning for it. Also, when you have tests like the one you linked, a lot of courses shift towards preparing you specifically for that test and they lose sight of the big picture. It is sad but it rang true with a lot of my courses. :\

 

[Warseeker]

It's just that, I don't understand your previous post, the one with calculator while playing a melee map.

I don't mean take a calculator and start calculate units (Only for the one who doesn't know to calculate!) What I meant is that strategy need calculation like Math! I give you an exemple :
... let presume I play an undead melee map, what will I need?
Train units, and start working, making defense.....ect, Now I wanna assault an enemy base.
Since I'm playing with the undead I will do this : ( Train 2 goules, 4 nerubian, 2 necromancer, 1 meat wagon, 2 gargoyle and the hero). That's will satisfiat (I hope!) And then unleash the assault..... .... and let the best man win !!?

 

[WhiteFang]

Alright. I guess nobody likes Math! (Not even Tom Cruise!)

I hate it

 

[Kakerate]

2) because the solution kind of involves a "magic number" and no logical explanation on what you did.
Just to clarify: your magic number is 9. There is literally no reason how you came up with that number. Unless you can give me a scientifical explanation of how you came up with the number, everything in your solution is just based on an assumption.
The problem is: even if your assumption turned out to be correct, it still would not be mathematical reasoning.

I get what you mean. It was semi-understandable that she didn't like how I did it. After doing the problems a few times, I came up with 9 because the difference between the numbers can only be 1-9, which gives you 9 digits. 0 would like "match up" with 90 (if that makes sense) and would mean the difference between the two digits is 10 & that can't happen. So, since I came up with the magic number through a somewhat reasonable process, I think it's fair game.

where 10x + y is the number. In my opinion, your method is fine but not that kinda reliable. What if the problem got slightly complicated, and you can't think of a way like what you did with 27/9 and difference between 2 number is 3. But using algebra can always solve the problem and you would most likely rely on your algebra skill (which isn't that difficult) than your own method which us very situational.

I can understand that too, especially how the method I had wasn't very applicable to any other problems that would use Algebra. For any two digit number, the little trick I did worked. I'm sure you could tweak it to work with any number of digit numbers too. Really though,as you said, it's just Algebra at the end of the day. I could see you saving a fair bit of time if you had to solve the digits of a 5 digit number.

This (link might not work outside UK) is what I am talking about. Do not think it is easy as a term like "Explain fully" is not the same as simply "Explain". If you think it is easy chances are you will end up close to 0 marks. This exam is not made up, a member of my family will have to sit one like it next year.

It worked. Would this test be for students in secondary school for an English class, or what?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Would this test be for students in secondary school for an English class, or what?

Highschool Higher English. For people aged Approximately 16-17 depending on when they were born. There are multiple easier levels of that trash offered to people of a similar age who are less capable but ultimately are nothing more than repeats of the levels covered previously so utterly worthless.

I never wrote Higher English fortunately, only having to do Standard Grade English. Fortunately as long as you have passed some English, Engineering and Computer Science does not care at what level since chances are you will still be miles better at it than half their students who are from Asia or India.

 

[GhostThruster]

This (link might not work outside UK) is what I am talking about. Do not think it is easy as a term like "Explain fully" is not the same as simply "Explain". If you think it is easy chances are you will end up close to 0 marks. This exam is not made up, a member of my family will have to sit one like it next year.

i studied something very similar to this - 'english advanced' - in high school. it's not that hard, and i could argue it's as practical as math is.

 

[Wietlol]

I studied Dunglish... its a combination of Dutch grammar and (literally translated) English words.

 

[BETABABY]

Oh! MATH IS SO USEFUL!! Oh great! Trigonometry and other gibberish shit about math helps you socializing and talking to other people by not being weird!

"It's so useful!" "The best subject in the whole world"

 

[Dr Super Good]

Oh! MATH IS SO USEFUL!! Oh great! Trigonometry and other gibberish shit about math helps you socializing and talking to other people by not being weird!

"It's so useful!" "The best subject in the whole world"

Yes it helps a lot at university where people are not stupid. You are the one laughed at in university if you do not know basic maths such as trigonometry, differentiation or integration and lecturers will even go out of their way to make fun of you for being stupid and somehow making it into university.

 

[BETABABY]

OH MY!! MATH HELPED ME SOCIALIZED IN REAL LIFE!

It is so useful.. and the fact that I never dreamed on studying in such university simply because its too pressuring.

Anyway... It's not even based on such universities if you will succeed or not... Most of my aunts and grandparents succeeded in life without the need of your maths!!! Let's face it.. Math is only useful if you want to become an engineer or programmer, basically in everyday life you use basic math. I mean the basic math like Addition, Subtraction, etc.

Being wise beats Intelligence alone.

 

[Wietlol]

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Yea, you are clearly socialized.

Reading your statement, I guess you have the need of maths.

 

[Chaosy]

@Beta
I wholeheartedly think 90% of the math I have learned is completely useless.

But you got a serious problem

 

[Dr Super Good]

Anyway... It's not even based on such universities if you will succeed or not... Most of my aunts and grandparents succeeded in life without the need of your FUCKING MATH!!! You're the stupid on us two.. Forcing such subject on us to like it. Let's face it.. Math is only useful if you want to become an engineer or programmer, basically in everyday life you use basic math. I mean the basic math like Addition, Subtraction, etc.

You use trigonometry and Pythagoras every day. Without them you will not be able to take the shortest route anywhere. The number of people in video games I see not optimizing their movement because they are not aware of simple mathematics is stupid. For example in Mario Kart people going wide around a corner because they do not know circumference increases with radius. In real life you unfortunately get the same happening where people take needlessly stupid paths to a place because they are not aware of geometry and distances.

It is so useful.. and the fact that I never dreamed on studying in such university simply because its too pressuring.

The pressures of university are nothing. If you think university is stressful then try a real job!

Also humans have become successful purely due to their education and knowledge. If people did not study mathematics, chemistry biology or physics we would be nothing more than apes walking around a forest somewhere. Do you really want to disgrace your ancestors by forgetting the knowledge they worked so hard to bestow on you?

 

[Wasabee]

What the hell is wrong with that guy?
Did he even tried to study in a university?

You use Math everyday.

 

[Chaosy]

You use Math everyday.

Debatable actually, if you count 1 + 2, sure we do use it everyday. Otherwise, not really.

At my local supermarket each customer use a scanner which you then turn in when you pay, so you don't even need to do the basic math to calculate the overall price.

The only math we need daily is the math they teach 8 year olds. If you need 500g sugar to bake X, you need to buy 2x 250g (mind = blown). I totally needed to go to university to understand that.

 

[Wietlol]

Maybe if you went to university, you may understand when you use maths in daily life.
However, we are so used to it that we do it without even thinking so much about it.

 

[Wasabee]

What about the physics you apply everyday? Like you estimate the time you need to organize your tasks, when you calculate the car in front of you if its going fast/slow, when your playing sports like billiard, basketball or baseball?

Math describes the nature around us.

 

[Chaosy]

Like you estimate the time you need to organize your tasks, when you calculate the car in front of you if its going fast/slow, when your playing sports like billiard, basketball or baseball?

Who the f*ck does that.

So the car in front of me moves forward with a speed of X, I assume that the ground friction (I think that's the terms) is Y and that the driver press on the brake for Z seconds which means it de-accelarates with a speed of W so I need to..

When I play football (which I did for 7 years) I use the math current number of goals + 1. If you count that in as math, I admit we use it every day.

However the topic here mentions math that is A BIT more advanced than that.

Maybe if you went to university, you may understand when you use maths in daily life.

Considering not everyone goes to university so I call that bullshit. Apparently one can live a normal/average life without university, without almost any math actually.
My grandparents dropped out of school at sixth grade and have lived as adults for 70 years now.

 

[Xonok]

I think what apc was trying to bring out is that even if you don't specifically calculate anything, the thinking involved is actually the same as in maths. Being good at maths makes you better at estimating various numeric relations(e.g - break distance). I can confirm this based on my own experience.

How do you know in maths that your answer is correct? A lot of the time it's about some trained feeling of what looks right. You can use that same feeling for other things too.

 

[Chaosy]

Being good at maths makes you better at estimating various numeric relations(e.g - break distance). I can confirm this based on my own experience.

I call bullshit on that too. Math has nothing to do with that.

(sure this is simple stuff, but I doubt Einstein was amazingly good at anything real-life related a part from math and physics on paper)
Person A can calculate a circles area.
Person B can't.

That does not mean person A estimates distances better lol

 

[Xonok]

Something being applicable doesn't mean that it actually gets applied. If you don't see how knowledge of maths has any relevance to those things, then you don't use it either and thus it remains useless in that context.
It depends a lot on how you learned maths. The more abstract your understanding is, the easier it is to apply it elsewhere. (with knowledge in general)

 

[Chaosy]

Something being applicable doesn't mean that it actually gets applied.

Can't deny that.

______________________________

I just find it kind of funny because each time my teachers have introduced something new in math the last.. 6-7 years I have asked "Why do I need to learn this?"
They always gave either vague answers, or scenarios that basically never happen, and even if they happened you wouldn't exactly lose 1000€ because you couldn't calculate.
And I hear the same thing, over and over again, adults forget so much of what they learned in school, which is a simple sign that everything we learn is far from needed.

 

[Wasabee]

So the car in front of me moves forward with a speed of X, I assume that the ground friction (I think that's the terms) is Y and that the driver press on the brake for Z seconds which means it de-accelarates with a speed of W so I need to..

When I play football (which I did for 7 years) I use the math current number of goals + 1. If you count that in as math, I admit we use it every day.

However the topic here mentions math that is A BIT more advanced than that.

Your observations actually involves math. Application of math doesn't necessarily mean by directly solving equations.

For example you know if the car in front is slowing down when you observe its movement in the road with respect to time.

Another is how do you even shoot the ball in the ring if you don't observe the your distance and height between the basket, the force required and its projectile angle? The mathematical equations just show the behavior of the ball but with your observation helps you determine the result. Equations only show how you analytically describe a behavior.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Your observations actually involves math. Application of math doesn't necessarily mean by directly solving equations.

For example you know if the car in front is slowing down when you observe its movement in the road with respect to time.

Another is how do you even shoot the ball in the ring if you don't observe the your distance and height between the basket, the force required and its projectile angle? The mathematical equations just show the behavior of the ball but with your observation helps you determine the result. Equations only show how you analytically describe a behavior.

While this is all dandy and politically correct, I don't think you understand why people are arguing. They're arguing against the advocacy of time wrenching, on paper, redundant equations. What you're stating is one of the most obvious things there are.

- Geometry (and other math) is used in every day life
- Geometry (and other math) isn't used the same way as in assignments and written equations in every day life

 

[Kakerate]

Another is how do you even shoot the ball in the ring if you don't observe the your distance and height between the basket, the force required and its projectile angle? The mathematical equations just show the behavior of the ball but with your observation helps you determine the result. Equations only show how you analytically describe a behavior.

That's a really good explanation. With how the other person explained with cars, I could see how perhaps Chaosy would disagree. Your basketball comparison is pretty solid though.

 

[Xonok]

What you describe as the problem doesn't apply to math only, but to education in general. It's hard to find motivated teachers on a societal scale and thus, the education system can't be set up to assume they exist. This produces the mediocrity that we have where many people lose sight of why they are learning those things.
I don't claim that people are stupid for not realizing, but rather that the system isn't set up to explain things very well.

Why this comes out easier with math than other languages is that we seem to have this strange notion of math being something separate from reality when in fact it's the very opposite.

Lockhart's lament

 

[Dr Super Good]

A lot of mathematics animals understand implicitly through physics. For example a fly (a tiny fly like people kill and some people eat) performs several million ultra low latency vector operations per second during flight which even the best computers cannot compute with the same constraints.

Like wise humans do something similar to simply stand.The importance of mathematics is to explain, prove and optimize such actions.

Are you really sure you are doing something as fast as you could be? Are you sure your throws are going as far as they can? Are you sure that taking route A is faster than route B? These are all daily problems one can solve better with an understanding of mathematics than without.

Without mathematics humans come up with outlandish theories why stuff happens. For example the world being flat which was a lie most people believed under a thousand years ago. With some understanding of mathematics anyone can prove the world is not flat without needing to go into space and see for ones self or even leaving a small area of the planet surface.

 

[Shadow Fury]

So much nonsense here. Not by case, I, once again, disagree fully with Chaosy. While we do use the simple Math we took in the primary everyday, we also use more advanced Math. One good example of Math you use everyday involves choosing the most convenient product. Product A costs $50 per 350g while Product B costs $70 per 500g. Which one is more convenient?
Something harder? Alright, another example. During a sale, a product X has a discount of 22% and costs $65. Product Y has a discount of 27% and costs $70. Which one will be cheaper to buy.
These are only two of the many instances I can give you.
Math allows you take better decisions, be less gullible (like in business, trading, buying and selling) and explain many hard concepts. Of course you do not grab a shooting rifle and say "Oh, I must shoot with an angle of 15 degrees at a distance of 25.3 metres to hit the target". However, you cannot deny that Math is useful, geometry included.

 

[WhiteFang]

Why are you talking about geometry in real life?Isn't the topc geometry in WCIII?

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Product A costs $50 per 350g while Product B costs $70 per 500g. Which one is more convenient?
Something harder? Alright, another example. During a sale, a product X has a discount of 22% and costs $65. Product Y has a discount of 27% and costs $70. Which one will be cheaper to buy.
These are only two of the many instances I can give you.

By who's standards is this advanced math?
AFAIK, no one here is dissing basic math or even intermediate math at all. Everyone should know the correlation between these type of mental maths with every minute of your life along with the basic equations one needs for an example like SF and many others have brought up.

And I guess WhiteFang is right. But most people don't care at the moment so no biggie.

 

[Shadow Fury]

Why are you talking about geometry in real life?Isn't the topc geometry in WCIII?

Because the thread escalated really quickly and has gone a little off topic.

By who's standards is this advanced math?

It is, compared to addition/subtraction which apparently everyone was talking about.

 

[WhiteFang]

Because the thread escalated really quickly and has gone a little off topic.

Like most hive threads,unfortunately

 

[Wasabee]

Why are you talking about geometry in real life?Isn't the topc geometry in WCIII?

From WC3 to real life.

 

[Flux]

Let's get back on topic, I don't know about you, but I'm using mathematics in wc map making.
Examples include:
- Free fall Simulation
- 3D Projectile System
- Circular Motion
- Applying Knockback
- Unit Orientation and Facing
- Stats Balancing
- Stats per level
- Percentage Damage
All counter arguments are invalid!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

AFAIK, no one here is dissing basic math or even intermediate math at all.

School mathematics IS basic maths. There is nothing intermediate in the mathematics taught at school.

Oh! MATH IS SO USEFUL!! Oh great! Trigonometry and other gibberish shit about math helps you socializing and talking to other people by not being weird!

"It's so useful!" "The best subject in the whole world"

People always burst into tears like society is forcing evil EVIL maths onto them and how they are required to learn the oh-so-advanced mathematics in 10th grade like it's some kind of rocket science or enigma.

It's not. It's basic, it's simple.


Nobody forces higher mathematics on a regular student in school. You only get confronted with higher mathematics if you study something at college or university that requires knowledge of higher mathematics.

And if the basic mathematics at school are already too much for the limited mind, then seriously, get over it and stop complaining about it. Because it's not about maths being useless. It's about preventing you from being useless.


What does everyone expect schools to teach? How to take a dump? How to eat food? How to sleep? Everyday stuff? Do you have to be taught that?
Why do people complain about schools teaching you stuff that goes just a little beyond the very basics? Are you afraid you might waste some of your precious time you could spend playing flappy birds instead?
Schools are there to prepare you for whatever comes after. It's not the end of everything. As such, they have the responsibility to prepare you for higher education or any job you might want to take afterwards.
And guess what: all the education and jobs that really matter require mathematics.
You can be another useless cunt serving burgers at your local McDonalds or you can be something.


There are children in this world that are not allowed to go to school be it monetary reasons, the country they live in, the gender they were born with or chaste restrictions. These children would kill to get the same education than industry nations provide for their offspring by law.

Seriously, kids, stop being so super entitled about your own ignorance and suck it up!

 

[Kakerate]

Zwiebelchen the savage. So aggro. Fear him. Rawr

Just kidding, but really Zwieb calm down a little. You're making good points and all, I agree with you, but your words are kinda just falling to deaf ears and it sounds like you're just reiterating what you've said over and over in what seems like an old mans' "TODAYS YOUTH!" kind of tone.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

It's more "today's idiots!" than "today's youth!".

I swear idiocy has become worse over the last decade. Children are children and more or less the same as they always were, but idiots have become way louder in the age of social media.

 

[Wasabee]

Yup.

 

[Shadow Fury]

It's more "today's idiots!" than "today's youth!".

I swear idiocy has become worse over the last decade. Children are children and more or less the same as they always were, but idiots have become way louder in the age of social media.

The sad truth which will ruin us all.

 

[WhiteFang]

It's more "today's idiots!" than "today's youth!".

I swear idiocy has become worse over the last decade. Children are children and more or less the same as they always were, but idiots have become way louder in the age of social media.

True

 

[DaneTheBeast]

this post is no longer about geometry

 

[Wietlol]

Neither is it about importance.

 

[pyf]

Because nobody mentioned it, and this thread sadly seems to be on the verge of dying anyway :

Please see fyi Donald in Mathmagic Land (1959)

@Moderators, if Fair Use does not apply here, then please remove YouTube link - please see the video on YouTube)

Most people should be able to connect their contributions above, to something pointed out in the cartoon. Even the necessity to organize his thoughts.

Donald in Mathmagic Land was produced at an optimistic time, when people believed in educational movies for the masses, hoping to raise global awareness. As an experiment, I showed it to adults (age 40-70) a few years ago.
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They did not get the point in the cartoon.