Gaias 1.2 ... and yes, I'm not joking.

[Vestra]

If that whole thing there disappoints you because I used mean words I'm happy to put up a version without them, y'know, because that would be the nice thing to do.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

The only reason why I haven't deleted all the posts from you two about this dispute is because then the thread bugs and shows the wrong amount of pages and I don't like that.
See that as a warning please. This is getting way out of line.

 

[Vestra]

Bah, alright, I'll keep shit to pms from now on. I'd suggest you do the same Inferno if you feel the need to reply.

Although this thread is kind of dead now, pretty disappointing end for it.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I unsticked this thread anyway, because it's outdated. Discussion about the 1.2 version should be in the "Whats about to come" thread, as it contains newer information.

 

[Vestra]

Well yeah I get that idea its just got, y'know, memories. Pages of love, rage and abuse just lost in time. Its a little sad.

 

[InfernalTater]

See Inferno, son, you may want to throw the whole 'your rage is pointless' in my face but being wrong all the time must suck ass.

Zwieb is 100% correct. And, you're fucking terrible lol. I gave you the answer, repeatedly, in quite friendly formats and each time you had a fucking cry because nobody agreed with your shit.

Keep in mind, your bitchy attitude started my off. If you whinge back at me, just expect it, you fucking child. This has absolutely nothing to do with politics, considering your style of making a point by being a bitch isn't exactly political either I'm not sure where you get off making such a pointless remark. Also, keep in mind, that the occasional swear word may be linked to rage, but isn't always rage related. The goal of my arguments on here, as they always tend to be, is to belittle the idiot that has attempted to trivialise valid input put in by myself or another player.

Please actually learn every angle of an argument before approaching with such a pathetic excuse of a debate in future. This isn't your first terrible idea, and it won't be your last. No, my ideas aren't all perfect, but I tend to approach people who disagree with them with a better attitude than the shit you said a page ago. You had a cry, nobody listened, you continued to cry and thus you got, I'll admit, an unnecessary amount of aggression but I assure you, this is not rage lol. The surprising thing is, you've completely neglected the idea that not only did I fully support one of your ideas, I stormed in with a massive backup of information.

Yeah, the last comment was unnecessary, I'm just not particularly fond of people like you. It doesn't mean I'll attempt to shut down your ideas in future or make an enemy of you. The statement may seem as aggressive as the rest of the post but it brings forward the same reasoning, if you can't take being told no because your idea is bad, take it to the actual game maker or fuck off with it. It's completely up to you.

You may think yourself in the right here but I assure you, one final time, you were wrong. You argued, in a childlike an ineffective manner, a point that had at least three answers put across to you over the thread. All valid, all better than pissing off an entire community.

Just keep in mind in the future, if you act like a little bitch to me, you will get what you deserve. Though, despite common opinion, I only bring this shit out when needed.

Oh, loving that whole, final little attempt at an insult there. You talk about assuming and then, as the common hypocritical douchebag does, and I know'cause I've been there too, you say something stupid and generalise an entire person because he disagreed with you.

Thats funny.
You're funny.

Stop trying to pretend you're some sort of hero. You've done nothing but rage and insult me throughout the entire thread.

I've done nothing wrong to you; all I've done is disagreed.

The only reason why I haven't deleted all the posts from you two about this dispute is because then the thread bugs and shows the wrong amount of pages and I don't like that.
See that as a warning please. This is getting way out of line.

So when Vestra starts raging, cursing, and insulting constantly just because somebody has a different opinion, and I respond calmly, that means I'm supposed to have my posts deleted? I haven't gone out of line, all I've done is voiced my opinion that just so happens to differ from Vestra's.

If it's out of line just for me to have a different opinion or idea, then I guess your thread is pretty pointless. If everyone has to have the exact same ideas and opinions, then why even bother having a thread for them to communicate in?

I've lost my respect for you.

Go ahead and delete this post, it's the only one that's actually insulting, but you'll still be an idiot afterwards.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

So when Vestra starts raging, cursing, and insulting constantly just because somebody has a different opinion, and I respond calmly, that means I'm supposed to have my posts deleted? I haven't gone out of line, all I've done is voiced my opinion that just so happens to differ from Vestra's.

You missed the point. Deleting only the posts that I find offensive doesn't make any sense. I need to delete all posts that create the context aswell, in order to not make this thing going on. This has nothing to do with any personal issues or my personal oppinion.

If it's out of line just for me to have a different opinion or idea, then I guess your thread is pretty pointless. If everyone has to have the exact same ideas and opinions, then why even bother having a thread for them to communicate in?

It's not your oppinion that is the problem. It isn't Vestra's oppinion that is the problem either. It's the way you both communicate with each other.

I thought you were an intelligent map maker, but I guess you're an idiot. I've lost my respect for you.

Go ahead and delete this post, it's the only one that's actually insulting, but you'll still be an idiot afterwards.

I don't see why you need to insult me personally, when I was just trying to stop a pointless argument as a person not involved, but well, you might have your reasons.

Just because I haven't expressed my oppinion on this idea (basicly because I wanted to see what others thought of that before):
I think you have a point with the Alt+Q thing. But it's extremely OS specific. Most OS don't close windows with Alt+Q (Windows 7 doesn't, for example). And I wouldn't want to change a popular hotkey layout just because of that. It's the same with the localized keys. I can not make exceptions for everyone because their keyboard layout is different. I live in germany. Y and Z and interchanged here. Although I might end up being at a personal disadvantage, I decided to just deal with it and use the Z and Y keys for hotkeys (actually, I haven't run into the point where I would need another column of keys, but the time will come), because most people will have the english keyboard layout.
If they do not, they can always manually assign the hotkeys.
I simply can not ensure perfect compatibility for everyone.

I'm actually pretty disappointed to see that there's people out there thinking I discourage discussions or suggestions.
I've been making this for several years now and heck, everyone that knows me for so long just KNOWS that I'm always open for suggestions. I always took them into consideration if they sounded reasonable. In fact, there's a lot of things that made their way into Gaias Retaliation that I never liked much by myself, but added for the sake of the community.

 

[InfernalTater]

You missed the point. Deleting only the posts that I find offensive doesn't make any sense. I need to delete all posts that create the context aswell, in order to not make this thing going on. This has nothing to do with any personal issues or my personal oppinion.


It's not your oppinion that is the problem. It isn't Vestra's oppinion that is the problem either. It's the way you both communicate with each other.


I don't see why you need to insult me personally, when I was just trying to stop a pointless argument as a person not involved, but well, you might have your reasons.

Just because I haven't expressed my oppinion on this idea (basicly because I wanted to see what others thought of that before):
I think you have a point with the Alt+Q thing. But it's extremely OS specific. Most OS don't close windows with Alt+Q (Windows 7 doesn't, for example). And I wouldn't want to change a popular hotkey layout just because of that. It's the same with the localized keys. I can not make exceptions for everyone because their keyboard layout is different. I live in germany. Y and Z and interchanged here. Although I might end up being at a personal disadvantage, I decided to just deal with it and use the Z and Y keys for hotkeys (actually, I haven't run into the point where I would need another column of keys, but the time will come), because most people will have the english keyboard layout.
If they do not, they can always manually assign the hotkeys.
I simply can not ensure perfect compatibility for everyone.

I'm actually pretty disappointed to see that there's people out there thinking I discourage discussions or suggestions.
I've been making this for several years now and heck, everyone that knows me for so long just KNOWS that I'm always open for suggestions. I always took them into consideration if they sounded reasonable. In fact, there's a lot of things that made their way into Gaias Retaliation that I never liked much by myself, but added for the sake of the community.

It's a warcraft thing: Alt+QQ = Quit.

Anyway, it's already been solved, I just don't like the way Vestra was going crazy cursing rage mode just because we disagreed, and I don't like the way you were threatening to delete my posts just because I disagreed with him, when I wasn't even out of line.

 

[S0ulseeker]

ain't nobody got time to read all these posts tl;dr but what I gathered from my lazy skimming was that zweiebel 'threatened' to delete ALL the posts not one from just one specific individual. He's just tryin to prevent any argument from getting out of hand. No need to attack him and insult him zwielb is an awesome guy doing somthing amazing in his free time for us and he doesnt need it. Sure you guys had a dispute but it happens take it to private messages Im sick and tired of seeing this argument and this isn't the place for it.

 

[Vestra]

You know what, Inferno is right. Every post I have ever put up through the entire thread has been complete rage and I have not contributed to this map at all.

I AM SORRY EVERYONE, FORGIVE ME FOR MY FLAW, I WILL SEEK HELP.

Tell you what, for the sake of this thread, I'll send a damn pm instead of posting here.

ain't nobody got time to read all these posts tl;dr but what I gathered from my lazy skimming was that zweiebel 'threatened' to delete ALL the posts not one from just one specific individual. He's just tryin to prevent any argument from getting out of hand. No need to attack him and insult him zwielb is an awesome guy doing somthing amazing in his free time for us and he doesnt need it. Sure you guys had a dispute but it happens take it to private messages Im sick and tired of seeing this argument and this isn't the place for it.

fuku you're not even here man

 

[_lycan]

I'll report your post inferno to Ralle so you get at least banned for 1 week, he told you both to STOP and you haven't (specially you) what the f*** do you think by insulting zwieb? what has he done to you??? you're a joke dude.

 

[Vestra]

No point dishing out bans Darkly. Zwieb diffused the situation its all sorted and shit now, everyone is happy and all of that. Agree to disagree, such and such, or so I assume.

Anyone else got any suggestions or complaints for 1.2 I promise I won't bite, I do. I swear, lots, if you've noticed.

 

[Vestra]

I think you have a point with the Alt+Q thing.

Just thought I'd tackle this here Zwieb, although you may see point in it, despite my constant attacks on inferno, I stand by what I said.

The problem is easily solved by playing a team strategy game correctly.

I'll go over the points, pros and cons if you will

Pros:

The key is changed to avoid people using ALT+Q/Q to quit the game, which is indeed a wc3 command and thus unavoidable I believe, although it could possibly be disabled in the INI file? I'm not quite sure on that one.

Cons:

The key was originally changed from I believe H in order for players to have ease of access to it. Q/Q is an effective way of healing targets through the early game when you're learning to manage agro. Healing has to be very precise, the simple access Q/Q provides helps newer players with this curve.

Healers who are used to the key now have to adjust to a new key, this causes people who love the fast action to potentially make mistakes and cost runs. This is not a major issue, but imo not worth a change.

The actual problem is easily avoided by a number of things:

The -qi command
The ingame wc3 health bar option
The ability to customise keys through use of a textfile or Warkeys

All of these work around the accidental closure of the game, without pissing off numerous players that still frequently use the key and enjoy the simple command.

Frankly, in a game where you're managing significant amounts of aoe damage, say, in a fight again The Blazing Flame, you'll need both the bars and the -qi command on, to appropriately manage a team. Doing so allows you to see who is getting his, whilst the bars help provide an exact location of the target. Its the smarter, easier decision.

It avoids a needless solution.

As for targets that lack the -qi healing, such as Casimir/Gaspode, it comes down to the team working together as, surprisingly, a team. Having tanks manage where the primary units are attacking, along with other allied heroes not crowding these important allied units, healers are able to control the damage they receive significantly.

For example, taunting The Lieutenant to move him away from Gaspode when he is blocked.

I assure you, changing the key is not going to stop people sucking ass at healing. If anything it would ever so slightly make it harder for new folk, and in time, like you did a few months ago, you'll get the exact same damn request to change it back.

Thats my 2 cents on it, passive as can be I'd think.

 

[S0ulseeker]

I agree with everything Vestra just said. There are multiple ways around the whole alt+Q/Q issue already within the game with the:
The -qi command
The ingame wc3 health bar option
The ability to customise keys through use of a textfile or Warkeys

 

[InfernalTater]

I agree with everything Vestra just said. There are multiple ways around the whole alt+Q/Q issue already within the game with the:
The -qi command
The ingame wc3 health bar option
The ability to customise keys through use of a textfile or Warkeys

-qi still doesn't work for mercenaries which are very important when you're on a 2-man team.

In-game war3 healthbar options ruins the terrain which had so much effort put into it, by covering it with healthbars all the time.

I have used the solution of modifying the text file, but I still think that basically hacking your game is a bit excessive of a solution for you to expect every player to take.

Healing abilities are the only ones that you would need healthbars while casting. As such, they are the only abilities that should not be mapped to Q. Mapping other abilities like Soul Strike to Q would be harmless.

There are plenty of keys easily reachable in the area; Q, W, E, R, T, A, S, D, F, G, Z, X, C, V, B, without stretching any fingers, and it really isn't hard to get used to different hotkeys at all. You might screw up a few times during the first 5-30 minutes, but that's really not a big deal compared to the total amount of time we've all put into this in the past.

I'm not saying it has to be changed. I'm just saying, it's a problem with a simple solution. Hell, you could even do it via triggers to have heal be triggered by two different hotkeys, one being its new hotkey which would be displayed on the ability, and then the old Q for people who don't know how to learn a new hotkey, so that whenever anyone accidentally hits Q for heal would still get to heal. And, of course, Q itself would have to not be replaced by other abilities.

Then everybody's happy; people who prefer Q still have Q, and people who don't want to alt+Q+Q have another hotkey they could press to heal.

Yes, people could change hotkeys by hacking the text files, but it's absurd to expect every average player to, especially when most of them have never seen the forums.

I'll report your post inferno to Ralle so you get at least banned for 1 week, he told you both to STOP and you haven't (specially you) what the f*** do you think by insulting zwieb? what has he done to you??? you're a joke dude.

Go ahead, I've done nothing ban-able. You're acting like one of those crazed fans who'd take up a knife and stab anyone who didn't like your master celebrity. You're the joke, not me.

Healing has to be very precise, the simple access Q/Q provides helps newer players with this curve.

Q isn't the only key that's easy to hit. I've had no problems hitting any of the other hotkeys either in games with QWER, ASDF, ZXCV hotkey setups. They're all very easy to hit, except Alt+QQ quits, while Alt+WW, Alt+EE, Alt+RR and such don't.

 

[GasQueen]

I have used the solution of modifying the text file, but I still think that basically hacking your game is a bit excessive of a solution for you to expect every player to take.

There you have it. You just said you found a solution to its problem, but now you don't want to apply it for the only reason of the famous moral saying (or whatever) "hacking ruins everything", whereas you're only customizing the game at your personal way, and that's really not a bit of a problem.

In-game war3 healthbar options ruins the terrain which had so much effort put into it, by covering it with healthbars all the time.

Again. You are only expressing your point of view towards enabling health bars visibility being active all the time. I think your suggestions are pretty subjective rather than actually improving the game's performance.

 

[InfernalTater]

There you have it. You just said you found a solution to its problem, but now you don't want to apply it for the only reason of the famous moral saying (or whatever) "hacking ruins everything", whereas you're only customizing the game at your personal way, and that's really not a bit of a problem.

I never said I didn't use the text file modification. I'm just saying that it's a bit excessive for you to expect everyone to hack their game just to fix a hotkey. Most people won't want to go that far.

 

[_lycan]

Inferno stop it already, first of all you're the ONLY one complaining because you don't like healthbars always on, you know... you're just finding excuses now, making a simple text file changing q into Thefuckyouwant isn't any worse than complaining and calling the map maker stupid.

 

[Vestra]

-qi still doesn't work for mercenaries which are very important when you're on a 2-man team.

This is true, however, using the 'C' command to pull the mercenary out of a situation where they are blocked by a target is an effective way to fix this situation.

In-game war3 healthbar options ruins the terrain which had so much effort put into it, by covering it with healthbars all the time.

I'm sorry but I do not think this is a viable reason to change the key. It can be toggled off by choice for a reason, but I would suggest to any healer to always have it on, the main reason being that fights involving large aoe damage or constantly moving units on dark terrain are much easier with health bars always on.

I have used the solution of modifying the text file, but I still think that basically hacking your game is a bit excessive of a solution for you to expect every player to take.

Yes, people could change hotkeys by hacking the text files, but it's absurd to expect every average player to, especially when most of them have never seen the forums.

Warkeys, although a third party program, is another easier solution for those that might find modifying a text file confusing. That way everyone gets what they want.

Healing abilities are the only ones that you would need healthbars while casting. As such, they are the only abilities that should not be mapped to Q. Mapping other abilities like Soul Strike to Q would be harmless.

On the contrary, I've found health bars can aid in targetting smaller units that are near or slightly covered by a larger unit, so agro can be pulled from a weaker tank. Soul Strike on Q would indeed not be harmless, however, I do bring back the point where people relate to the key easy and changing it could frustrate a larger number of people than it would please; one.

There are plenty of keys easily reachable in the area; Q, W, E, R, T, A, S, D, F, G, Z, X, C, V, B, without stretching any fingers, and it really isn't hard to get used to different hotkeys at all. You might screw up a few times during the first 5-30 minutes, but that's really not a big deal compared to the total amount of time we've all put into this in the past.

I'm not 100% on this but I think zwieb is trying to keep hotkeys within the Q, W, E, R, A, S, D, F , Z, X, C, V, area. Most of these keys are already mapped, others are for new skills so changes are viable but again I personally don't consider this viable reason for change.

Those few times you screw up can not only cost you gold and time, but your team as well. Many players are are still struggling to earn gold, losing it constantly can be frustrating, people get angry, say rude things. This is quite obviously an extreme situation but still, needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few and such.

Q isn't the only key that's easy to hit. I've had no problems hitting any of the other hotkeys either in games with QWER, ASDF, ZXCV hotkey setups. They're all very easy to hit, except Alt+QQ quits, while Alt+WW, Alt+EE, Alt+RR and such don't

It's not the only easy key, you're right on that one. However, it does follow a very simple combination which is quick and easy to remember: Q -> Q, very easy for people learning how to deal with nuke damage, especially in areas like D1. I'm personally quite fond of this, I think it supports the early game quite well. Changing it for the sake of new players would not be horrible but its another one of those 'Why' reasons.

I'm not saying it has to be changed. I'm just saying, it's a problem with a simple solution. Hell, you could even do it via triggers to have heal be triggered by two different hotkeys, one being its new hotkey which would be displayed on the ability, and then the old Q for people who don't know how to learn a new hotkey, so that whenever anyone accidentally hits Q for heal would still get to heal. And, of course, Q itself would have to not be replaced by other abilities.

That is an interesting solution, if you could pick one other key to map it to what would you suggest, whilst avoiding all currently mapped keys.

Then everybody's happy; people who prefer Q still have Q, and people who don't want to alt+Q+Q have another hotkey they could press to heal.

Now this isn't another stab at you or anything Inferno but you and you alone are the only one after this request, one of the many reasons for my initial seemingly hostile defence. A change for what I consider, personally here, the error of one person, is not worth considering in such grand detail but here you go.

This is a passive response, and what I probably should have done initially.

 

[TitanDeath]

I'd say 99% of people don't even need to go that far anyways. Just about everyone uses health bars and -qi. Cant expect something to be changed when it already works well.

 

[Pharaoh_]

For future reference and as a reminder to everyone that is posting here, this is not a private forum. Every insults and mistreatment of other members will be dealt accordingly. If you go on with this attitude, you will be setting the project's forum at risk.

Use the report function or Staff Contact when you are dealing with such issues, personal attacks are intolerable.

 

[Vestra]

Alrighty, thank you for your input Pharaoh.

 

[frustatedmagician]

wth.. this is funny.. lol.
inferno, holding ALT key for healthbars..
that was like.. around year 2009 or when was it?

sir, get urself used to the wc3 healthbar on,
it wont hurt you, if you put a little effort to adapt.
dont blame the terrains and blaah... thats a lame reason.

and uve been silly to complain ur only issue with the cost of changing Q for heal.
thats like, ruining everyones fun?

oh wait, the issue is solved alrdy.
my bad i missed that post.