Demon's fabulous cave boss test thread!

[SaikoDeMoN]

So we finally got a kill out for the latest -test boss. Only thing is, we made use of Dazing Traps which I believe to be bugged. What's the verdict on this? Is it intended to work on elites and bosses or not? Currently it works on pretty much everything (momentarily for stun-immune bosses but even works to cancel spells that shouldn't be interruptible like BM's Spawn Spiderlings).

I'll upload a video (and probably s0ul will on his channel aswell) if you think it's OK.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Dazing trap hitting certain stun immune units is definitely unintentional and a bug.
However, in the case of Zharo, I will actually allow CCing the caster add in the final design.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

OK good. Verdict on videos? Should we wait until the bosses are officially released?

 

[S0ulseeker]

My fear is these bosses were designed and balanced for lvl 50 content pre-soul release. Now that we can get better stats all around, we as a group of 5 without new and better gear were already able to beat 2 of the 3 bosses (with the seer being unbeatable due to bug), albeit zharo was incredibly hard, once we get the new release gear I fear the bosses will become very trivial like foothills content has become. I think all the new bosses should be slightly buffed in some regard to compensate for souls

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Adding onto what S0ul said:

Especially if you'll allow CC on Zharo's adds, we can easily keep them totally disabled and it completely trivializes the entire fight really.

 

[Simonizerx]

I took it like this, cc would only work on the caster add. Which would be a great idea. imo

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Added video for boss 3. Zwieb PM me if you want it taken down.

While you're at it, check the notes.

Adding onto what S0ul said:

Especially if you'll allow CC on Zharo's adds, we can easily keep them totally disabled and it completely trivializes the entire fight really.

I agree with this. Even if it is only the caster, that's when the fight gets fun and challenging. If players can just perma-freeze/daze either or both of these adds, this encounter loses most of its potential.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Added video for boss 3. Zwieb PM me if you want it taken down.

While you're at it, check the notes.


I agree with this. Even if it is only the caster, that's when the fight gets fun and challenging. If players can just perma-freeze/daze either or both of these adds, this encounter loses most of its potential.

I understand your sentiment, but I want to keep CC spells and stuns relevant in endgame meta. That's where bosses with adds usually come into play. I realized that Zharo in its current form is too hard, but I don't want to nerf the caster add or melee add either.
I can spice things up a bit by giving Zharo a dispel spell or giving the caster add a CC breaker.

 

[Simonizerx]

Or, maybe just giving the melee add a berserk type spell, that allows him to break out of CC.

I was watching our replay the other day, and I noticed the caster add (cant remember his name) uses dispel magic. I thought at first he was casting it on us, but I don't think he is programmed to remove our buffs. Would make things a little more difficult, but interesting nonetheless. Mend, diving shield, venomous blade, ect.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

I can spice things up a bit by giving Zharo a dispel spell or giving the caster add a CC breaker.

Can you give both the adds blurred motions? That would let them break out of CCs on their own, right? They would cast it every cooldown so CC would still be good against them (or just the caster if the melee's going to be immune) but you would have to time your skills to be effective.

What about the HP situation? I went with a 6 player group recently, Zharo was down to 30% before caster even spawned.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

I think a berserk mechanic that builds up while the adds are stunned would be really cool. Similar to the ogres boss mana lanterns mechanics. So while the adds are under the effects of frost cage or dazing trap or petrify, they'd be building strength, and then when they come off of these effects they'd start losing strength. However if they kept under the effects of the spells for a total of 40 seconds they'd get stun breaks and start going totally berserk, essentially instantly causing a wipe, similar to the the mana lanterns again.

CC'ing the second add would also make Zharo more powerful, so the players would have to make a decision in how long they really want to keep the second add disabled for. I'd also not be opposed to starfall being stronger or even a triggered instant death. When we get more health from the next gear set this spell will become trivial to dodge IMO .

For this to work Zharo does need more health though. He should honestly be pretty much impossible with full foothills gear IMO. Forcing us to build up some gear from other bosses first would be good. Unless you're planning on adding a fourth boss, but I thought I read somewhere we'll only be getting three.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I think a berserk mechanic that builds up while the adds are stunned would be really cool. Similar to the ogres boss mana lanterns mechanics. So while the adds are under the effects of frost cage or dazing trap or petrify, they'd be building strength, and then when they come off of these effects they'd start losing strength. However if they kept under the effects of the spells for a total of 40 seconds they'd get stun breaks and start going totally berserk, essentially instantly causing a wipe, similar to the the mana lanterns again.

CC'ing the second add would also make Zharo more powerful, so the players would have to make a decision in how long they really want to keep the second add disabled for. I'd also not be opposed to starfall being stronger or even a triggered instant death. When we get more health from the next gear set this spell will become trivial to dodge IMO .

For this to work Zharo does need more health though. He should honestly be pretty much impossible with full foothills gear IMO. Forcing us to build up some gear from other bosses first would be good. Unless you're planning on adding a fourth boss, but I thought I read somewhere we'll only be getting three.

Interesting concept with CCs empowering the boss. I guess you don't mind if I copy that into my idea file...
Probably not for Zharo, but I could imagine using that concept in D4.

Also, the caster add popping up at around 30% doesn't seem broken to me; that's actually what I expected the fight to be. The healer add is a serious increase in difficulty and takes away lots of your DPS time (as now at least one character will be busy keeping the add at bay), so those 30% can feel painfully long.
Let's not overtune this encounter, please. It's still an open world boss. The Overseer is meant to be the hardest, not Zharo.

 

[BoxOfFaith]

Oh alright, fair enough.

Im personally in favor of having content being overly hard and then nerfed down as new content surpasses it, rather than just trying to have a smooth progression curve as we go about releasing new content. This is where my desire for "overtuning" comes into play at least. Just because it'll be our current end game content, it should be really difficult, but then as D4 gets released, pulling it back to standard world boss content to fit into the actual difficulty curve would be ideal.

Though that is more work, so I totally understand not wanting to take that approach x].

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I don't think you will have to wait long for D4 after the release of 1.2C. It's way less work than 1.2C, simply because it's pretty much straightforward combat design without any extra fluff like quests, new systems, new npcs, etc..

 

[Jumbo]

Still I think every new World boss should be 5-10% stronger.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Bump. Check OP for Boss 2 update.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

A thing on the lord of caverns:
Remember that Battering ram was random target before?

That's why...

It changed up the staticness of the boss.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Can't say I hate the fight, and I don't think the entry boss into the zone should be too difficult or complicated, but I would definitely prefer it if the fight wasn't so static. Are you considering changing it back to random and lowering the damage? I still think that having AoE effect on the starting position (leave damage/targetting) is the way to go. At the moment, you don't really need to move from close range for the full duration of the fight. His Leap AoE damage is too low to be scared of.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Hmm, well, I think I will change Battering back to be random target and change the damage dealt. It just makes the fight more interesting that way.

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

Alright. As long as we're not just all huddling in one spot the whole fight, I'm happy with it.

 

[S0ulseeker]

In 1.2b (16) the changes you made to the timer on mass teleport for seer is too great. He often casts it immediately after you just clear golems now

 

[Mullock]

don't adjust better easy

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

don't adjust better easy

Perhaps if you post a replay of how you killed all the test bosses in 1.2B(16) too easily, your words would have some weight. Hell, even a logical discussion of why these bosses are too easy for you may work. Spamming "it's too easy, it's too easy" everywhere means absolutely nothing.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Anyway you will have better gear in 1.2C. So bosses difficulty should be ok unless they are totally unkillable atm. Were you hoping to kill garg in full d3 anyway?

 

[SaikoDeMoN]

We have done a full foothills run in D3 gear before. D3 gear is not weak, just takes a lot longer to farm than foothills. That's a pretty daft sentiment though, we're going to start farming these bosses for the first time in our foothills gear, and it will take a while to gear up. You aren't going to magically gain better gear as soon as you load into 1.2C.

Too many players have been spoiled by coming in late to the game and being run through by lvl50s thinking everything was always a cakewalk.

Overseer is only killable atm with 2 healers (including a bishop for shielding nova), 2 hard phys DPS and 2 hard spell DPS.

 

[Jumbo]

Agreed Kamina. And to be honest I think experience gain from being near heroes 10 or more lvls above you should be dramatically reduced. To 50% or even 20%. Game is being ruined by our own kindness. It allows people who don't deserve it to get great gear and high lvls for no effort. Also, in my opinion, only people close to a boss fight should be able to take the dropped items. I'll make a new thread about this to prevent spamming this thread with offtopic stuff.