Stem Cell Research/Abortion

Here's a cause that has been on my mind. Should we have the right to use aborted fetuses to research the saving of lives? Is abortion justified at all? Do the ends justify the means? Are fetuses the equivalent to humans? Discuss.

Originally Posted by MySpaceBarBroke

Here's a cause that has been on my mind. Should we have the right to use aborted fetuses to research the saving of lives? Is abortion justified at all? Do the ends justify the means? Are fetuses the equivalent to humans? Discuss.

Originally Posted by Shados

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• Only serious discussions are allowed (This does not mean the topic of your thread must be serious, only the way it is discussed):
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"Discuss." is not a point of view. You have been warned.

Originally Posted by Shados

"Discuss." is not a point of view. You have been warned.

Ah, sorry... didn't see that stuff in the conscription thread, though..

I believe stem cell research is perfectly justified. It has the opportunity to save lives and might be able to help others overcome paralysis. Such a thing should not be passed up. A person against this might say that the cost is too much. A person should not have to die for another to live. I, on the other hand, don't believe those who have a potential to become human are, in fact, human. One does not fully become a competent life form until he is birthed, in my point of view. If you would say that a potential human is the equivalent to a human, you would have to say a sperm cell and an egg cell is the equivalent to, and in that case, we are murdering millions every day. To put it in another context, that would mean paint and a canvas is the equivalent to some expensive masterpiece, or that pieces of metal and other miscellaneous material is the equivalent to a car. The thing has not been fully processed yet, and therefore is not the same.

I, for one, think that stem cell blah is perfectly fine. I mean, why have unneccessary and unneeded cells in your body, when you can put them to good use?

This isn't going to be a discussion, this is going to be a stem cell research rally. The only people against using aborted fetuses for stem cell research are religious zealots who are against abortion (which is really what the entire issue is about).

Honestly though, abortion is never going to stop, legally or otherwise. I'd rather be used for anything than be discarded because someone who wants to "save" me doesn't want to make me useful. They're not going to grow up anyways (flusehd dovn an toilet D:), why not use them to save lives?

Well, our president refuses to fund stem cell research, so it obviously must be a controversy of debatable stature... it's just not many people here are against it... the majority of us internet types are probably not conservative or evangelic christian, and therefore tend to have a view against such things most of the time.

If anything, I would think intarwebs users would not care as much.

I personally support steam cell research and i don't understand why there is any kind of religous argument against it. The way I see it, we arent playing God at all, we are just using what he gave us to heal us.

Actually there are two kinds of stem cell research.

Adult stem cell: I support greatly it is already showing progress and being used to treat sickness with success.

Embryonic stem cell: Is a travesty first because it uses aborted babies which is tantamount to murder because the baby is a living being that is still a human life. And it shows no progress it isnt working it has a larger failure rate and it shouldnt be funded because Adult stem cells require no aborted babies it can be taken out of your own body and it works, Embryonic does'nt its a failure.

Originally Posted by Elenai

Embryonic stem cell: Is a travesty first because it uses aborted babies which is tantamount to murder because the baby is a living being that is still a human life.

I'm sorry, but abortion is never going to stop happening. You might as well use them, right? It's like hunting for sport, complete waste of meat.

For good measure, I'll just go and throw the "greater good" at you: What is one life compared to possibly hundreds of thousands? Several hundred lives to millions? It's a bit like war (the necessary ones, at any rate). Would you use the most terrible weapon in the world, and decimate a large city? Would you not, and instead fight through all of a country in order to finally extract a surrender? It's possibly not even the greater good anymore, but the lesser of two evils.

Something else, sanctity of the dead does not mean "never ever even think about doing anything to their corpse"; organ donors prove that. The real travesty is that while abortions are still happening, embryonic stem-cell research is not.

Originally Posted by Elenai

And it shows no progress it isnt working it has a larger failure rate and it shouldnt be funded because Adult stem cells require no aborted babies it can be taken out of your own body and it works, Embryonic does'nt its a failure.

It shows no progress and fails because it has so little funding, and so much opposition.

Embryos are not human beings. Until they are born, they are as human as your liver. Abortion is perfectly justified, and therefore, so is stem cell research.

DOES a baby have a body :yes does it have human DNA :yes Is it a living organism and not just a body part: yes Will it someday grow up as and develop experiences as a human person: yes

then it is human and it is a living person thus it should not be killed just to reap its cells.

And embryonic stem cells is not going to save millions infact it will kill millions of babies just to attempt to save people were as Adult stem cells will save millions in an already tried and true safe and un killing manner.

And organ doners giver permission to donate organs, aborted babies are ripped apart or burned alive in a salt solution with out any say in the matter.

Originally Posted by Elenai

DOES a baby have a body :yes does it have human DNA :yes Is it a living organism and not just a body part: yes Will it someday grow up as and develop experiences as a human person: yes

then it is human and it is a living person thus it should not be killed just to reap its cells.

Hrm... Zealot much? Women don't just go out and terminate pregnancies for far-off scientific ends.

Originally Posted by Elenai

And embryonic stem cells is not going to save millions infact it will kill millions of babies just to attempt to save people were as Adult stem cells will save millions in an already tried and true safe and un killing manner.

Aside from you missing the point, there's something way fucking wrong with that logic. I've said it before, but here it is anyways: women do not go out and have abortions just so that some guy/girl in a lab can experiment with the fetus' cells. Now that that's over, the point is this: if they're going to die anyways, why just flush them? Why not use them to accomplish something positive?

Originally Posted by Elenai

And organ doners giver permission to donate organs, aborted babies are ripped apart or burned alive in a salt solution with out any say in the matter.

Eh, touché. I won't touch whether or not (or when) a fetus can be considered human or not, so I concede. I'm pretty sure that the methods for extracting stem cells aren't nearly that violent, though.

Originally Posted by Elenai

DOES a baby have a body :yes does it have human DNA :yes Is it a living organism and not just a body part: yes Will it someday grow up as and develop experiences as a human person: yes

then it is human and it is a living person thus it should not be killed just to reap its cells.

And embryonic stem cells is not going to save millions infact it will kill millions of babies just to attempt to save people were as Adult stem cells will save millions in an already tried and true safe and un killing manner.

And organ doners giver permission to donate organs, aborted babies are ripped apart or burned alive in a salt solution with out any say in the matter.

Do embryos have minds or a conscious point of view on life? No. Do embryos have life in them that differs from life as sperm and egg? No. Does being a "potential human" the equivalent to being human? As much as having a paint and a canvas qualifies having a million dollar masterpiece. As much as having a roll of film qualifies as having a blockbuster hit. As much as having a piece of scrap metal qualifies as being a car part.
BTW: Your organ donor theory sucks because you changed points of view from the donor to the organ, and abortions aren't for the sole purpose of stem cells, they are for the sole purpose of unruining lives. The stem cell research is an addon of convenience.

Originally Posted by Elenai

does it have human DNA :yes

we share some 94% of DNA with pigs and cows but you have no trouble killing them. realistically there is no such thing as "human" DNA because we share so much of everything, what is true of E.Coli is true of us.

Originally Posted by Elenai

aborted babies are ripped apart or burned alive in a salt solution with out any say in the matter.

LOL @ ^

nuff said.