Remembrance (AKA Veteran's) Day - Counterproductive?

A combination of dislike for my school's remembrance day assembly as well as the thread in Off-Topic inspired me to post this. However, without further ado,

Would you say that Remembrance Day is counterproductive?

Consider this:

• The rather jingoistic tendency of most countries causes many major facts to be conveniently forgotten so as to manipulate peoples' opinions of them. For those without good research habits, those who are easily led, and those who are slow to question, this leads the country to be able to sway a lot of the population to whatever they associate with these now-manipulated 'facts'
• It is then made to appear that people in wars died saving their country's just cause. This is evidently untrue when a bit of research has been conducted.
• These veterans supposedly fought to end war and make the world a better place, and gained honour in sacrificing themselves for their country.
• Thus, we may conclude that it is honourable to die for one's country.
• Thus, we should go fight in wars to 'defend' our country (when our government claims the war is defending our country, also known as all the time).
• Thus, we eagerly go to war at the first opportunity.

This strikes me as a more subtle and effective form of recruiting.

Note that I'm not a pacifist, but the combination of lack of knowledge of history from the sub-proponents (as I like to think of them, the brainwashed minions spreading the word) as well as the danger in such jingoistic principles strikes me as leading to accomplish exactly what remembrance day is meant to discourage: wars.

EDIT

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As if the above post wasn't cynical enough, I had some more thoughts.

At my school's remembrance day assembly, they play a slideshow of all the veterans from the school which served in the major wars.

Now, it's fairly well known that one of the things that people strive for by the end of their life is to have meant something; to have made a difference. I'd say that being remembered for 100 or more years and recognized yearly, as well as permanently on display in the Student Services room's wall of your school, is a better-than-average impression.

So, you defend your country, uphold your ideals, gain honour, and leave a lasting impression of having accomplished something.

What could be more powerful a voluntary persuasion (as in, no guns, knees, walls, etc) tool?

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

A combination of dislike for my school's remembrance day assembly as well as the thread in Off-Topic inspired me to post this. However, without further ado,

Would you say that Remembrance Day is counterproductive?

Consider this:

• The rather jingoistic tendency of most countries causes many major facts to be conveniently forgotten so as to manipulate peoples' opinions of them. For those without good research habits, those who are easily led, and those who are slow to question, this leads the country to be able to sway a lot of the population to whatever they associate with these now-manipulated 'facts'
• It is then made to appear that people in wars died saving their country's just cause. This is evidently untrue when a bit of research has been conducted.
• These veterans supposedly fought to end war and make the world a better place, and gained honour in sacrificing themselves for their country.
• Thus, we may conclude that it is honourable to die for one's country.
• Thus, we should go fight in wars to 'defend' our country (when our government claims the war is defending our country, also known as all the time).
• Thus, we eagerly go to war at the first opportunity.

This strikes me as a more subtle and effective form of recruiting.

Note that I'm not a pacifist, but the combination of lack of knowledge of history from the sub-proponents (as I like to think of them, the brainwashed minions spreading the word) as well as the danger in such jingoistic principles strikes me as leading to accomplish exactly what remembrance day is meant to discourage: wars.

EDIT

---

As if the above post wasn't cynical enough, I had some more thoughts.

At my school's remembrance day assembly, they play a slideshow of all the veterans from the school which served in the major wars.

Now, it's fairly well known that one of the things that people strive for by the end of their life is to have meant something; to have made a difference. I'd say that being remembered for 100 or more years and recognized yearly, as well as permanently on display in the Student Services room's wall of your school, is a better-than-average impression.

So, you defend your country, uphold your ideals, gain honour, and leave a lasting impression of having accomplished something.

What could be more powerful a voluntary persuasion (as in, no guns, knees, walls, etc) tool?

Hmmm.

I don't know about other people, but what you describe is not what goes through my head at all when I think of Veteran's Day. For me, Veteran's Day is all about honoring all those who were crazy enough to go out and get killed so I wouldn't have to.

Also, when you say that it is counterproductive, what do you mean it is counterproductive to?

Bah. I hate holiday-haters.

First of all, sadly, I would say about 95% country doesn't care AT ALL on Veteran's Day.

Although not all wars, many wars are fought for a just cause, and in almost all cases they do sacrifice for their country, even if its in a strategically meaningless war or battle.

In my opinion, anybody who is persuaded to join the Army because of Veteran's day was already leaning towards the army.

Also, Remembrance Day does not exist to prevent wars, it exists so that we can remember those who valiantly gave their lives for their country.

Only idiots would be persuaded by the reasons you put in the edit, and thankfully idiots that observe Veteran's Day is a very small fraction of the population.

Overall, I would say that joining that army is generally a good thing to do, if not for practical reasons then for moral reasons. Somebody has to do it, and the job tends to suck. So, I see no problem that those who do join the army are glorified later in life, and if it persuades others to join, good for them!

/disjointed ramblings

Do you think we should do away with Veterans day Poot? Just curious.

Note: Jingoistic is your new favorite word is it?

Meh, I don't really care. It seems people are more in love with the day they get off from work/school as opposed to the people who served their country.
--donut3.5--

Note: Jingoistic is your new favorite word is it?

Only in this sort of situation.

Meh, I don't really care. It seems people are more in love with the day they get off from work/school as opposed to the people who served their country.

It isn't a holiday for us. Just an acknowledged day.

I don't know about other people, but what you describe is not what goes through my head at all when I think of Veteran's Day. For me, Veteran's Day is all about honoring all those who were crazy enough to go out and get killed so I wouldn't have to.

It didn't go through my head during Remembrance Day either, I just thought of it recently. Hence why I said subconscious or something along those lines. Additionally, why would you have to die instead of them should they have lived?

Also, when you say that it is counterproductive, what do you mean it is counterproductive to?

To its proclaimed point.

Although not all wars, many wars are fought for a just cause, and in almost all cases they do sacrifice for their country, even if its in a strategically meaningless war or battle.

A just cause? Hit me.

Also, Remembrance Day does not exist to prevent wars, it exists so that we can remember those who valiantly gave their lives for their country.

At least here it's specifically said to do so to prevent such things in the future.

Only idiots would be persuaded by the reasons you put in the edit, and thankfully idiots that observe Veteran's Day is a very small fraction of the population.

You'd be surprised how irrational most decisions everyone makes are, and how easy it is to be misled.

Overall, I would say that joining that army is generally a good thing to do, if not for practical reasons then for moral reasons. Somebody has to do it, and the job tends to suck. So, I see no problem that those who do join the army are glorified later in life, and if it persuades others to join, good for them!

It isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just more than a little dishonest. This wasn't meant to be a discussion of ethics.

It's funny you should mention this.

My school celebrated Veteran's Day by holding a big concert where my marching band played and veterans could share their experiences. It was actually pretty cool.

Also, ironically enough (or maybe the teachers did it purposefully; I don't know), during Veteran's Day, which stems from Armistice Day of WWI, we were reading All Quiet on the Western Front, a hugely anti-war novel telling stories of the lives of German soldiers in WWI, gas, bombardments, and the works.

I personally don't think Veteran's Day is just some recruitment advertising. More importantly, where do you draw the line between honoring those who have risked/given their life for the country, and encouraging others to do so?

I personally don't think Veteran's Day is just some recruitment advertising. More importantly, where do you draw the line between honoring those who have risked/given their life for the country, and encouraging others to do so?

Personally, I don't think that honoring veterans could persuade people to join the army. But I'm basing that off of my feelings, and I'm not really people.

The only thing that could convince me to join the army would be a good cause. For example: Canada is invading. (not that I think that this would happen.

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

Quote:
Although not all wars, many wars are fought for a just cause, and in almost all cases they do sacrifice for their country, even if its in a strategically meaningless war or battle.


A just cause? Hit me.

To stop the spread of genocides.

Originally Posted by Aschy

To stop the spread of genocides.

Elaborate how that constitutes even the minority of wars. Heck, name one (You probably will be able to find one or two, but I can't think of any at the moment).

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Anyhow, I'm basing a lot of this off how they've been done at my school and similar events nearby (which I've seen clips of from somewhere or other), so it may indeed be very different in other places. I'd agree that that would be quite neat, MSBB.

Anyhow, I've never been a big fan of 'Support Our Troops' in any sense of the word. If you want to join the army and risk your neck, be my guest, but don't come crying when you get wounded (Note: This of course makes conscripts different).

I have many sites and articles that you can look at if you want to, just PM me. They devoted like a month and a half at my school to teach us about genocides in history. But I dont want to take your thread offtopic.

There were plenty of genocides, but the western world didn't fight wars over them. Anyhow, I'd be happy to continue this discussion in PMs or something if you'd like.

Hmm i think the people who died for their country should be honored. Think of the soldiers who stormed the beaches of normandy to fight Hitler, or in the first world war. They died defending their own and other countries, which is even more honorable.

You might be digging too deep, although there may be some subconscious reaction to it similar to what you said in your post, I doubt that veteran's day was made as a recruitment scheme.

I doubt it was as well; at the time, there were huge feelings of pacifism. That doesn't, however, mean that there isn't some influence worked in it.

Hmm i think the people who died for their country should be honored. Think of the soldiers who stormed the beaches of normandy to fight Hitler, or in the first world war. They died defending their own and other countries, which is even more honorable.

Just out of curiosity, why do you find that honorable (this ties into the thread question in the first place)?