Freedom

This is a general discussion about freedom. What make it possible? What makes it impossible? Do we have too little? Do we have too much?

I think freedom is a good thing that everyone should have. I also think that in America, we have lost far too much of it.

Freedom is an illusion. No one is free.

I am free............

You are bound by rules and law. Without them you feel lost. Either way, you are trapped.

Within the bounds of the rules and law, you are free to roam. I am happy within these bounds and have all the freedom I need, for now.

Ooh, speaking of which, if you could have more Liberty or more Order, which would you choose? (Or should I create a new thread for this? Since it's a general discussion about freedom, I don't see why)

I'd say I'm leaning towards Order.

Originally Posted by ragingspeedhorn

Freedom is an illusion. No one is free.

Everyone is free (as long as they can enforce their freedom). Okay, so maybe nobody is truly free.

Originally Posted by Elenai

I am free............

Then you live on a private island?

Originally Posted by Modo

You are bound by rules and law. Without them you feel lost. Either way, you are trapped.

The bounds sure feel small to me. I think that not violating other peoples rights is as loose as freedom needs to be.

Originally Posted by PurplePoot

Ooh, speaking of which, if you could have more Liberty or more Order, which would you choose? (Or should I create a new thread for this? Since it's a general discussion about freedom, I don't see why not)

That discussion is welcome in this thread, it's meant to be a very long discussion.
As for me, I choose liberty.

Everyone is free over their own life. Unless you are in a prison in a straitjacket with all soft walls (so an asylum of sorts), you can take your life or continue to live it at any time. Beyond that it gets tricky.
--donut3.5--

I choose order. If everyone stayed on the straight and narrow, we would effectively be more free as we would all be joyous within our bounds.

Hakeem, what makes the bounds feel small to you? I find that law is what gives people freedom. It stops you violating other people's rights and gives everyone a fair go. If you lived in a lawless society, you would most likely cling to whatever rules you could find. Rules give security.

Anarchy fails because people naturally make rules. I'm not saying there should be no rules, but if anyone can violate my freedom, then I'm not as free as I should be. If the law said that you should be someones pet, would you accept that?
In America, there are many laws that congress had no right to make, and they have taken away our freedom.
Why did our elected officials write something that takes away so much freedom? USA PATRIOT Act

I'd go with order aswell, something which many countries lack, well most of the world really.

Originally Posted by Modo

You are bound by rules and law. Without them you feel lost. Either way, you are trapped.

Within the bounds of the rules and law, you are free to roam. I am happy within these bounds and have all the freedom I need, for now.

You're free to do whatever you like, including outside the so-called bonds of law. After all, who hasn't broken the law? Really, freedom as a metaphysical concept is stupid, as we're all free in that manner. Only the physical can be constrained.

I don't really wish I could do anything I can't, but that's maybe because I was raised that way (ie used to rules), and someone raised in a completely ruleless environment would think otherwise.

If the law told me to be someone's pet, I would do it. I would be a good pet, as long as I had a kind master.

It did get me to thinking, what would make me disobey the law. If the law told me to kill, steal, worship false idols, etc. I would disobey it. I take the laws as set by God of Christianity before all others. If there is a conflict or rules between two things, you have to choose which one to obey.

If your country had a law that said you always had to double post, and they had perma-spys on every computer, what would you do? I know this situation will never happen, it is just a metaphor.

Like what PurplePoot said, I have been raised in a very rules orientated way. If I didn't obey the rules, my family would not survive. We all must play our role, and play it well. If we deviate, we suffer.

Dating back to Roman law, it has said essentially one main important idea:
"Obey the rules. If it is a crappy rule, get rid of it."
Now what decides a law? The people. This essentially gives freedom to the point at which is does not harm others.
Now, with the Patriot Act, that was signed by essentially corrupt officials, and was an obvious breach on the freedom of people, and I think it is quite a crappy law, and should thus be thrown out.
--donut3.5--

Unjust laws are meant to be broken...(like Martin Luther King Jr. and his protesting the unjust race laws.)