Capitalism or Communism

Well Let me just say neither of these lead to no government at all that would be anarchy, chaos, which I do long for but in this day of age it won't happen.

Like TDR said, communism(autocracy) is beyond control, they choose everything for everyone. Constantly spy on their own people and do anything they want. It does provide more stability than other types of government, but it does provide the freedoms a normal human being longs for.

Capitalism, basically a Democracy(which means power to the people) would be nice but in alot of ways it's still really bad. If it was a direct democracy, everyone in the country would vote for every single law, and everysingle decision the government made. Complete waste of time and resources.
Representative Democracy is similair except the poeple vote for representatives to vote for them, but this basically takes away power from the people. Of course it sounds good on paper, just like communism, most things sound great on paper. But people are corrupt, who you vote as a representative could have been a good person but power changes a person.

So I can't really choose because I don't see any government being a good government. Anarchy is the best in my opinion because it's basically everyone look out for themselves.

But if I had to choose between Capitalism or Communism, I'd have to say Capitalism because atleast then you have the little freedoms to enjoy, and be able to make something out of your self than "you baker, you farmer, you sewage inspector"awww", you gynecologist "SCORE!" "

> Complete waste of time and resources.

That's certainly true in the past, but what about now?
As our technology increases, I see the possibility of having a true democracy with a minimum of hassle that you pointed out.
Whether that will happen, that's a completely different story, but I think it could be possible.

But a direct democracy would take so much time... say India had one and over a billion people had to vote... it would take so much time.

> But a direct democracy would take so much time

Maybe not. If everyone had a computer in their home and there was an electronic voting system set up... I think it could be fairly efficient.

Now, obviously there would be problems. Security from fraud would be a huge issue, as would hacking the system and other such things. It might be difficult to make it efficient and safe, but I think it could still happen. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future.

Originally Posted by TDR

man I know what communism did to my country and I can tell you that anything could be better than that. It's nut just an economy system, it's a life control device. It's not all fun and games like in Marx's theories.
You could barely leave the country, all your phone calls were listened, your best friend could be a national security agent that reports everything you do to the goverment...almost everyone has a file with reports of anything they did, they're stored at some archive I forgot it's name. You had to sit in endless lines to get a bottle of milk and bread. You basically had no control over your life. And much more.

I don't know how communism goes nowadays, like in China, but I know what happened here and is more than enough for me to say NO to it. Anything but communism man.

Then again, communism didn't do that to your country. People did it in the name of communism. It's like saying it's God's fault that crusades started, because those were wars "in the name of the one God". I'm not defending communism or capitalism in any manner, but I think you should try to see that communism itself doesn't lead to things like that. It's the way people tried to implement communism in a state, such as a despotic government system, that lead to situations like you know them. The biggest problem is that communism is associated with lack of freedom where people are controlled by its government. So please try to stay away from what historically came along with communism as we know it now...

The whole situation of sitting in an endless line for a bottle of milk had many historical reasons. One of them being a large industrialisation (and mainly militarisation) in an agricultural country in a very short timespan. Another one is bad governing and corruption. In combination of a bad implementation of communistic idea's, this lead to such a bad situation. But too often I think people see communism as the big evil that is the reason of all misery. Combined with the other factors, communism probably only made things worse, yes, but that's in a non-ideal situation...

Again, let me stress that communism is an economical system, nothing more. Any association with communism that leads to bad memories is not to the point. In fact, saying that communism means constantly spying on your own people is idiot. Communism doesn't provide more stability. Despotism does. Those are 2 different things.

I would gladly choose Communism since it is supposed to be a utopian paradise, where capitalism makes no such promise. But in reality, it would obviously never boil down that way, which is why, in all practicality, I believe in socialism.

Communism can never be a perfect society, because it would be pointless: you sacrifice your entire life to support everyone else's. You get no opportunity to live your own life, rather you are a slave to everyone else, just as everyone else is a slave to you. Then you would have leachers who would live entirely off of the support of others and not contribute anything back, and on top of that a corrupt government which would also reap the rewards of its working population and give little back.

So, with Communism: the theory is great to dream about, but in all reality, it will never work, and even if it did, it would never turn out the way you think, never as a utopia.

Now, capitalism can be no better, allowing private businesses total control over the economy is like shooting yourself in the foot. They can charge whatever they want for their goods and people will suffer: the rich get richer while the poor live in filth.

So, socialism is a balance. It keeps the private businesses in check while still allowing people to do what they do best: live their lives.

Politics are ideals used as tools by the greedy in order to obtain money,power,and influence.

No matter what the base idea of a politic says,it will always be different.The few who try and fight for the true meaning of those ideals are pushed aside by the power-hungry ones.

So there isn't a right politic out there.There is only the wrong and the less wrong.

Ignoring things like crime, laziness and sheer impossibility, both a perfect capitalism and a perfect communism would most likely be paradises. In a true capitalism, people get what they work for, and in a true communism, everyone goes through the same hardships. Both of those sound pretty great to me, it's just that people mess up the formula; there's nothing wrong with either. Both create opportunities to be exploited for one's benefit at another's loss.

I am very much in agreement with brad.dude03.

Communism is definitely not the answer, in my opinion. It requires a violent overthrow of the previous government, which means that the people who would be given powerful positions would not exactly be the most peaceful.

Socialism, on the other hand benefits absolutely everyone involved. Government corruption could cause the immediate downfall of Socialism, though.

Capitalism is a good system and it works, but it is slow, annoying, and in general somewhat difficult. All governments have their issues, but in the perfect world, I would want Socialism with perfect leaders.

Communism does not require any such thing. All it requires is for everyone to be willing to work for other people, which is admittedly a huge thing to ask. Also: NECROPOOOST.

This all depends on what you're talking about: ideals or reality.
Ideally, if there was no such thing as corruption and all people in this world were good people, Communism/Socialism would be far superior.
TDR, what you experienced IS NOT communism. It is a dictatorship disguised as communism because the government wanted the people to think it was for the people. However, in the cases of many, many communistic governments before, it was just an excuse for people to gain power.
Capitalism is technically what's natural. Survival of the fittest, power to those who deserve it. However, this doesn't make it right. We are no longer in the age of doing whatever it takes to survive, our complex communities should be able to grow past that. Helping others and having universal equality would truly be a Utopia.
However, as with all Utopian societies, they require perfection, which nobody has.
--donut3.5--

Hi, thread ressurection. But, none the less, valid discussion.

Communism is terrible. The entire concept is flawed, starting with the fact that I have to become a slave to society. No thank you.

brad.dude03: Well yeah, but it would work if people didn't mind working for others >_>.

Yes, that's why I am fine with Communism by choice. People absolutely can put as much of their incomes into social services as they want, but I don't want to be forced into it.

Communism is just basically a dictatorship under the parties rule. Their's alot of propaganda, that during when the U.S.S.R. was in power. That many people believed that it was great and dandy their. But that was only like 0.1% of the population was atleast high class. While 50-60% were slaves, and workers. It also pushes no better products. If you worked hard, and another person worked lazy. You would get the same pay, so why work hard? Many people choose this because it sounds great. But over history, they don't last to long.


In a Capitalism society. It's the hard workers who make it on top. It also pushes for lower costs, and innovation.

Example...

1. You and another person were making computer parts.
2. You both sell them for $100 a piece.
3. You get the idea of selling yours for $90. But gain still a profit, but a lower one.
   1. As a consumer, what would you buy of the 2 items on the shelf... The lower or higher price one that both have the exact same stuff?
4. So, if more people buy your stuff, the other guy would go out of bussiness. Of course he's not that stupid. So he lowers his prices to. $80 and makes his product much better.
   1. You (consumer) will buy the lower costing item, with the addition of a better product. So it appeals more to you.
5. You notice this and change your prices to $75, and make it even faster and better.

• Basically you have a chain reaction of who can get better. The one who wins is the one who tries the hardest. If your just a lazy ass bummer who dosen't give a shit. You will lose, or get fired.
  • This is like a small part of a Capitalism. But their are flaws, every system/thing on this planet has flaws. It's what makes innovation and humans. The population should get mad when something get's out of control.
    • Like a monopoly company, like Microsoft. It's way to powerfull, and simple stomps the other competitors. They have so much money, they can make their products free. But the other company can't, so they will go eventually bankrupt. If no one buys their products.
  • Biggest problem of our economic power, is China. They can produce products and half the cost, and sell them here... Why?
    • They don't have to follow regulations of pollution, safety, clean electricity, water, and others. While americans do, forcing them to make their products cost more. Americans also have to go through strict regulations of their products, like are they safe? While chinese don't, such as lead in those toys.
• Many problems arise withen our government as well. Corruption has spread far with our past few presidents. Many people don't believe in a honor system, respect, the integrity of the U.S. It's just alot of bullshit that no one cares about. The people of a country is much more dangerous of that of the country or it's military.