Warcraft 3: World of WarcraftVenture in the mysterious continent of Kalimdor. Choose your class and learn the ways of eight different races. Fight for power, protect your people, or just live to explore the lands of Warcraft.
You should make a plea for those who can, take a break and help out. Just be open to submissions of what you need and let it ride. Take a load off, literally. This project has been in anticipation for a great time, and you've already done a lot to the point, which i think, you should just start letting people get their name in for the sake of completion.
No need to be an "official" member, especially if you don't want it to leak. Just advertise your to-do list of what CAN be done by the average joe/jane as practice for aspiring positions of those types. Though i don't think a huge amount of people will try and learn something for the sake of soeone else's project, others could still help out as their own practice, and get their name in the credits; It's an incentive, from which they may be promoted later on in the game's history.
I'm an ideas man, sorry, but i just don't see why people can't just get together and accept each other's input and get things done. That's universally.
You should make a plea for those who can, take a break and help out. Just be open to submissions of what you need and let it ride. Take a load off, literally.
We've done this many times in the past, each time has been a waste of time and a failure overall. I do not plan on accepting official help from people. Besides, only inexperienced people are interested in this mod (Except those who actually help produce this project) end up asking to help and for the beta of course, and this group of people is what we do not need internal help from: Meaning that we do not need average knowlege modders, "noobs", or people who do not have a lot of time to spend with working on the project. We are in need of people who can frequently work hard on this project and successfully as well.
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Originally Posted by Cheeder
This project has been in anticipation for a great time, and you've already done a lot to the point, which i think, you should just start letting people get their name in for the sake of completion.
Are you saying allow others to recieve credit for things very small such as ideas? A lot of people (Over 20 people) have applied as an official member and had done absolutely nothing for the project, just to recieve credit for producing this mod. It is a scam, and neither I nor do any members of this team have any respect for these people. I sound mean right now, but I've had it with the people trying to cheat us out of our project and taking it from us.
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Originally Posted by Cheeder
No need to be an "official" member, especially if you don't want it to leak. Just advertise your to-do list of what CAN be done by the average joe/jane as practice for aspiring positions of those types.
We do accept contributions from time to time, though so far no contributors have actually followed through with their plan to help us. Frequent contributors actually have a higher chance of being accepted than people who apply with proof of their work, mainly for respectful and loyalty purposes. If you wish to do contribution work, just ask what needs to be done in what aspect (Models & Skins/Triggers/etc.) and if I really think you can even help us enough for the needed work, I will tell you what is to be done. Usually it is either a hard or really easy objective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
Though i don't think a huge amount of people will try and learn something for the sake of soeone else's project, others could still help out as their own practice, and get their name in the credits; It's an incentive, from which they may be promoted later on in the game's history.
Not sure what you mean that about something being inactive in the game's history. But anyway, to get into the rest of this:
As I've said, adding people to the credits just to make the credits page look active is 100% rhetorical. Though maybe a generous thing we could do, it would be an act that'd spit in the faces of those who actually did the real work on the project. To receive credit for helping us, you must put in a lot of effort and contribute a lot to this project. Making a GUI trigger or a small un animated model is not really worth creditting since we'll just replace it in JASS or redo the model totally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
I'm an ideas man, sorry, but i just don't see why people can't just get together and accept each other's input and get things done. That's universally.
It is not as easy as you think. If someone says "Hey! Make a function that makes you instantly to level 60!", we will just ignore this because for gameplay and balance reasons, it'd be pointless. We're trying to remake WoW, not make some totally new game based off of WoW. Though we do plan to make some adjustments to Wc3:WoW such as make leveling faster and make PvP more entertaining and skill-based. Fixing WoW's flaws is our goal once we finish the base of this project.
Also, we can't just say "Okay, time to add Talent System to this project" and then instantly code such an immense system and have it in within a week. A lot of problems come up too, such as life (Family problems, School related work, Actual paying jobs, etc.) and motivation. It is hard to motivate people, though with the help of our fans it helps make my job motivating the team a lot easier, believe it or not. People want to be a part of something big that deserves and receives a lot of recognition, especially when they're public proof shown that they took part in it. And when they hear that their work is appreciated by fans, it attracts them to work more and harder some times, especially when I'm on them about getting stuff done.
Those who are really inexperienced or were rejected from the development team, the most you can do then is donate/beta test (And actually do your job [So far, about 4 people out of 30-40 have reported bugs officially to our e-mail. This is a discrace] and tell us what bugs and such they found.)/advertisement/motivation/ and help with website(s) and our forum(s).
~Craka_J
Those who are really inexperienced or were rejected from the development team, the most you can do then is donate/beta test (And actually do your job [So far, about 4 people out of 30-40 have reported bugs officially to our e-mail. This is a discrace] and tell us what bugs and such they found.)/advertisement/motivation/ and help with website(s) and our forum(s).
~Craka_J
I had send you a PM applying for a job... I can certainly understand that you think my terrainingskills don't meet the requirements, but the least you could've done is replying... I found that just as much a disgrace.
In addition to this, I also applied to the beta team (I think my application form was accepted), but haven't received any link to a mirror so far, so I do hope those other 30 people aren't waiting either...
Finally, on the contributionpart, I'd say it would be much easier if you would just make a list of models / textures / systems you need. Then try to advertise as much as possible and make people send in contributions. When they meet the quality you're looking for and they get accepted, people will get credits for those models. This would eliminate "discouraged" people in the team, as you're actually not adding them to the actual team, but to the credits list. Active contributors could finally be added to the team when they have entered a large amount of useful contributions.
By doing so, you actually only need to find people who are good at terraining and scripting. Any other contribution could be done by outsiders. It's just a suggestion however.
1. I don't even recall recieving a PM by you. I'll have to double check.
2. I'll have to resend the beta. I'm so sure that I sent you it already, but what the hey!
3.I might take some time to make a list of needed stuff that the team members do not have time to do. It'll probably take a while to make though, to be honest.
4. Terrainers and sound/music composers are probably the only people we don't want contributions from. Music and sounds are already provided by WoW's .mpq file and the terrain part will be left to the official dedicated team members.
Hey Cracka_J, i appreciate the reply. However, i must say that i think you are wrong in your way of thinking about this. I, personally, am going to give credit to everyone who has helped me in the least bit for my map. I come in here and request some help, usually info more than anything else, and i get answers. Sometimes i don't get answers but i simply get replies. However, from some of these replies i get an idea even though the reply had no intention of solving any problem. I see that reply as "help". In my opinion, that person has the right to be credited for my map, and so i will.
I do understand that you are trying to make the game top-notch, but i believe that if you took as easier attitude towards those who want to contribute in any way, EVEN if their JASS sucks, EVEN if their models suck, EVEN if their spells suck, or should i say not-to-par for each of those, you'd still might get a submission of such where it was good and useful and there was not much else needed to be done with it.
I do not say "attitude" to make you sound bad. I don't know you and you seem level-headed and i cannot pick-up emotion from you so please take no offense to the word, it was simply used to help express my suggestion.
You can always replace models and textures and spells. If i were you i'd get the triggers done first and then accept the aforementioned resources, beta test it and see what people like and don't like. You'd then just have to worry about such for the most part.
So they get their name in the project. Who cares? If you really really cared you could do a percentage by their name, or simply a number signifying how many models, spells, etc they contributed. I'm not telling you what to do, and i don't know your ETA for the game, but accepting help and crediting the help is reasonable.
Similar to this, as i mentioned before which you did not understand, people may not go ahead and study to learn JASS for a few months just to create some uber code for the map. But they may know enough about JASS, or SOMETHING, anything, that could help you out. I guess i sort of feel a tension-barrier between the project and the public.
And the point to be made is, the difference between the percentage of your input and the percentage of the input of someone else doesn't have to be that way. You chose to make it that way. Imagine every WC3 user contributed to the map. All would be somewhat equal and there would be a lot less for you to have done.
Let me assure you i have no hidden motive; to get ahold of the game, to get my name in the credits, to have anyone else get the map from you, etc. Sure there is going to be a lot still to do after getting people's submissions, but before anyone is going to make the most complex model or skin for your map you'd sooner finish using what is available.
I truly hope i am putting no pressure on you, or getting you upset. My intention is for you to open up yourself, for YOUR own sake. Not that i lie, but that is the truth. It's the empathy i have for you knowing what it's like to have more on one's own plate than they can handle. And even if one can handle it, it must be the stress that i can only imagine.
Aside from that, are you using ground-textures for your buildings? I'm currently writing-up a tutorial of how to make use of Splats. I'm sure you could figure out how to make use of them, just as i will later explain in my tutorial, but it's an idea to make the map more unique.
Hey Cracka_J, i appreciate the reply. However, i must say that i think you are wrong in your way of thinking about this. I, personally, am going to give credit to everyone who has helped me in the least bit for my map. I come in here and request some help, usually info more than anything else, and i get answers. Sometimes i don't get answers but i simply get replies. However, from some of these replies i get an idea even though the reply had no intention of solving any problem. I see that reply as "help". In my opinion, that person has the right to be credited for my map, and so i will.
People who give ideas will not be given credit. We don't really need ideas for this kind of project anyway, since WoW is what we're basing this off of, we've got all of the ideas we'll need. Though when it comes to balancing spells to balance classes, then those ideas would be useful. We give credit to beta testers who are actually frequently helpful. People who give about 4 reports don't deserve credit because we take that as a way that they try to take up space on the website. Unless if they made a map with a trigger similar to ours, but fixes a lot of stuff in it, then yeah, that may deserve credit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
I do understand that you are trying to make the game top-notch, but i believe that if you took as easier attitude towards those who want to contribute in any way, EVEN if their JASS sucks, EVEN if their models suck, EVEN if their spells suck, or should i say not-to-par for each of those, you'd still might get a submission of such where it was good and useful and there was not much else needed to be done with it.
I do not say "attitude" to make you sound bad. I don't know you and you seem level-headed and i cannot pick-up emotion from you so please take no offense to the word, it was simply used to help express my suggestion.
I take no offense to the word attitude because there are two definitions and ways for the word to be taken. So no worries!
We might actually do something like this. But I've been in a very bad state of mind lately and it has been affecting my status as a mod leader and so it has been making me think twice about starting these types of threads and activities. Soon, hopefully, I'll be back to being in a good mood again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
You can always replace models and textures and spells. If i were you i'd get the triggers done first and then accept the aforementioned resources, beta test it and see what people like and don't like. You'd then just have to worry about such for the most part.
I'm not sure if we'll do this. We'd have to go out of our way a bit to make these little beta tests simply for models and skins and the like. We have to keep ourselves focussed on more important matters right now such as triggers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
So they get their name in the project. Who cares? If you really really cared you could do a percentage by their name, or simply a number signifying how many models, spells, etc they contributed. I'm not telling you what to do, and i don't know your ETA for the game, but accepting help and crediting the help is reasonable.
Similar to this, as i mentioned before which you did not understand, people may not go ahead and study to learn JASS for a few months just to create some uber code for the map. But they may know enough about JASS, or SOMETHING, anything, that could help you out. I guess i sort of feel a tension-barrier between the project and the public.
And the point to be made is, the difference between the percentage of your input and the percentage of the input of someone else doesn't have to be that way. You chose to make it that way. Imagine every WC3 user contributed to the map. All would be somewhat equal and there would be a lot less for you to have done.
It'd be nice to give people credit, even if they did 0.08% work for us now wouldn't it? But once again, that is something we're not willing to do. Simple as that. If someone is indeed skilled at what they do, and we like it, we'll let them into the team and if they do good work, we will of course give credit for their effort. This is a modding team full of skilled users, not some crappy volunteer team. Though everyone in the team is volunteers to help produce this project, we all see this as an opporotunity for something greater in the future. Like me, I got a job as a terrainer because of this! So giving credit to everyone will actually just reduce these chances for the rest of the team, to those who really dedicate their time and effort towards this mod.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
Let me assure you i have no hidden motive; to get ahold of the game, to get my name in the credits, to have anyone else get the map from you, etc. Sure there is going to be a lot still to do after getting people's submissions, but before anyone is going to make the most complex model or skin for your map you'd sooner finish using what is available.
It is nice that you do not want to get your name in the credits, soley so you can say you did a lot for us when you didn't or something like that, but unfortunately, there is a lot of people out there who intend to steal this and somehow get away with saying they made it (Even though we have three years worth of proof that we are the only creators) and this is something we are trying really hard to avoid. Thankfully, we are beginning to plan to protect this game from thieves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
I truly hope i am putting no pressure on you, or getting you upset. My intention is for you to open up yourself, for YOUR own sake. Not that i lie, but that is the truth. It's the empathy i have for you knowing what it's like to have more on one's own plate than they can handle. And even if one can handle it, it must be the stress that i can only imagine.
I am pretty used to the excessive pressure by now to be honest, though sometimes it can get pretty rough, especially during near the releases of betas and demos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeder
Aside from that, are you using ground-textures for your buildings? I'm currently writing-up a tutorial of how to make use of Splats. I'm sure you could figure out how to make use of them, just as i will later explain in my tutorial, but it's an idea to make the map more unique.
We are not using ground textures for buildings. They are two different textures which we're using.
Thank you for your questions and honesty!
~Craka_J
New tasks have been added and I've also put the name of who ever is working on the given assignment next to the task in bold letters. You can definitely expect more updates soon on this To Do List, but the chances of me bumping this thread for it is pretty small since I don't think its much big of a deal.
Our 'To Do List'
