- Joined
- Nov 3, 2006
- Messages
- 8,102
Okay, so here's a weird idea.
You're a new player. You calibrated badly after 3 months of playing, instead of waiting to get more skill in unranked. Your MMR is terrible. How do you get out of it? Obviously, first get better at the game, watch pro streams, watch some purge for basic stuff and some details, play more with friends and get a grip at communicating with other people first. Watching pro games will be useless in the beginning because you won't be able to relate your 4-5 core games with those solo-gold-xp-secured carries babysat by a dual support trilane, but continue watching in order to get a grip on how DotA is SUPPOSED to work.
But after that...
Most people suggest to pick a highly influential, snowballing, pubstomping hero like TA. It's a great hero for pubstomping, not only do new players easily underestimate how much damage she can dish out, do not understand how to dodge her attacks by positioning, and most importantly, never use detection, but they also have a really bad grip on what refraction does and how to easily counter it.
But... good luck getting mid. Or any solo lane, in fact. Actually, good luck getting any FARM, because that ogre magi "needs gold".
More often than not, you're going to lose games to arguments who's going to be mid, or have that pudge feed because he feels he's a better mid than QoP. Or to arguments who actually farms the lane. Most of the time, people won't understand difference between carry/support role, and why only one hero should be farming the lane. This sounds alien to people at much higher MMR, but yes, this trench exists.
Okay, if this is not an option, what do you do?
I think that actually supporting might be the way to get out of the trench - I've had some ranked win-streaks this way, gaining about 300 MMR in two days, and it seems to be going up steadily.
Basically, at trench mmr, you're going to have (at least, GOD) 4 cores. No question about it. More often than not, this is the case, so you either pick 5th core and have spectre weaver offlane while you're arguing with that pudge about who goes mid, or you pick a support.
I think that if you pick a support and know what to do as a support (when to roam/gank, when and how to ward/deward, how to keep your carries alive), you actually have a higher chance of winning the game.
Because if your teammates' 4 cores are as bad as their 4 cores and MAYBE a single support, and you manage to keep them alive, turn fights, tp support and get them kills, you're eventually going to win the game. To get higher MMR than those people, play wiser than those people, naturally.
If you have an idea who's going safelane (though it is never safe to assume that spectre won't go offlane with medusa >.<), picking a support to augment that hero might be a good idea (like picking kotl to support that pl, or picking dazzle to support that suicidal maniac huskar, or even supporting that offlane lina who is obviously not going to support - with lion for early rape/burst damage combo etc). In case their single support, if they have any, has not picked a hero with synergy with their (most importantly) safelane carry, you are already one step ahead.
Also keep in mind the following things:
As you are getting out of the very low MMR range, you'll have to adapt to players who are better at the game. Well, no shit. This means that you have to learn things in advance, if you do not want to fail. What this means is that you need to learn good habits, and especially so as a support. Buying wards when you can, and calculating whether you'll have enough money for wards, buying dust, getting sentries in advance (you do not start buying sentries when the first shadowblade rolls out and kills half your team, you get them at rune spots as soon as you can afford them, really, and deward asap) and you have to start being weary of the smoke ganks, and start thinking about them yourself. Also learning to properly pull/stack and keep the favorable equilibrium.
I learned this by being "boosted" by my 4k friend. Basically, he got me into a match where practically all people on our team are 3-4.5k, except for me... at 1.2k. Our average mmr was thus screwed, and they had around 800 greater average MMR. Their whole team announced tis 'in the bag', but then their hell started.
I did not play as badly as they were hoping I would - I had already learned more advanced mechanics before I've started playing that match - I've watched a lot of professionals play, and I am fully aware of all the things that high mmr players in 5 stacks can do. Thus I was not surprised at any point. I even counterpicked them really hard, was our safelane carry, got babysat by two good supports, and generally got farmed while my team created space for me. Were I a worse player, I'd have tried engaging in already lost fights and ended up feeding - but instead I picked my battles wisely, and only died a few times, when the fights were pretty inevitable and did not roll out in our favor. We ended up stomping them in the end, and there wasn't much they could've really done in the end.
This was not the only game I've played with/against people with much higher MMR where I've actually done a pretty good job - I have at no point felt inferior to players who have had MMR 3x as high as mine.
So what's the moral of this story? If you want to get out of the trench - first learn advanced tactics/mechanics there are in the game, EVEN if you're playing solo, but also learn to support well. Find some people who have much higher MMR, get a grip on how it feels, see what those "higher mmr" people are doing. Especially 5 stacks. But most importantly, if you've got calibrated badly a long time ago, you should really adapt to the game when you try ranked again, and that's the whole point of this thread.
Because if you can't support well, and change the tide of fights, and don't have a firm grasp of some mechanics, you're not going to rise in MMR. At your level, either get some teamfight supports, or supports that can save your allies. Or a support who can aid ganks very well. Whatever. If you understand the support mentality and constantly learn new mechanics and improve up on them, you're going to rise out of the trench, because in case you're that low, you have an obvious advantage over the others who are oblivious to them, and who have learned to play only against bad players (aka buying shadowblade on any hero because nobody buys detection, or building every hero glass canon without bkb, because naturally nobody buys blademail to counter that, should it not be in suggested items).
Picking a pubstomp carry should not be the only recipe to rise out of trench, because if you do that every single time, you won't really rise much, as you'll get 4-5 core teams every time, as people have the same exact mentality as you do.
Try to win by filling in the gaps. Have an adaptive mentality, you're not facing the same opponents every time, whether they are in your team or the enemies'. If your team has zero initiation, that tidehunter/earthshaker pick might just be viable. As a support, buy support items to help your team.
While I understand that Daedalus is very juicy on Mirana, an Eul's, Force Staff or Scythe might be way more beneficial to your team in a fight if you need more positioning or cc, though Daedalus is okay on a support Mirana if you really need more rightclick to pull fights off, but you'll need good judgement to see whether that's the case.
TL;DR - Adapt your playstyle if you want to rise, do thing you may not initially like or want, but fill in the gaps your team has. Sometimes it does not mean "pick a pubstomping mid and hope to get mid".
I'm writing this post mainly to try to fend off my frustration of solo supporting many many games because I get TA Slark Bloodseeker Shadowfiend teams way too often.
You're a new player. You calibrated badly after 3 months of playing, instead of waiting to get more skill in unranked. Your MMR is terrible. How do you get out of it? Obviously, first get better at the game, watch pro streams, watch some purge for basic stuff and some details, play more with friends and get a grip at communicating with other people first. Watching pro games will be useless in the beginning because you won't be able to relate your 4-5 core games with those solo-gold-xp-secured carries babysat by a dual support trilane, but continue watching in order to get a grip on how DotA is SUPPOSED to work.
But after that...
Most people suggest to pick a highly influential, snowballing, pubstomping hero like TA. It's a great hero for pubstomping, not only do new players easily underestimate how much damage she can dish out, do not understand how to dodge her attacks by positioning, and most importantly, never use detection, but they also have a really bad grip on what refraction does and how to easily counter it.
But... good luck getting mid. Or any solo lane, in fact. Actually, good luck getting any FARM, because that ogre magi "needs gold".
More often than not, you're going to lose games to arguments who's going to be mid, or have that pudge feed because he feels he's a better mid than QoP. Or to arguments who actually farms the lane. Most of the time, people won't understand difference between carry/support role, and why only one hero should be farming the lane. This sounds alien to people at much higher MMR, but yes, this trench exists.
Okay, if this is not an option, what do you do?
I think that actually supporting might be the way to get out of the trench - I've had some ranked win-streaks this way, gaining about 300 MMR in two days, and it seems to be going up steadily.
Basically, at trench mmr, you're going to have (at least, GOD) 4 cores. No question about it. More often than not, this is the case, so you either pick 5th core and have spectre weaver offlane while you're arguing with that pudge about who goes mid, or you pick a support.
I think that if you pick a support and know what to do as a support (when to roam/gank, when and how to ward/deward, how to keep your carries alive), you actually have a higher chance of winning the game.
Because if your teammates' 4 cores are as bad as their 4 cores and MAYBE a single support, and you manage to keep them alive, turn fights, tp support and get them kills, you're eventually going to win the game. To get higher MMR than those people, play wiser than those people, naturally.
If you have an idea who's going safelane (though it is never safe to assume that spectre won't go offlane with medusa >.<), picking a support to augment that hero might be a good idea (like picking kotl to support that pl, or picking dazzle to support that suicidal maniac huskar, or even supporting that offlane lina who is obviously not going to support - with lion for early rape/burst damage combo etc). In case their single support, if they have any, has not picked a hero with synergy with their (most importantly) safelane carry, you are already one step ahead.
Also keep in mind the following things:
As you are getting out of the very low MMR range, you'll have to adapt to players who are better at the game. Well, no shit. This means that you have to learn things in advance, if you do not want to fail. What this means is that you need to learn good habits, and especially so as a support. Buying wards when you can, and calculating whether you'll have enough money for wards, buying dust, getting sentries in advance (you do not start buying sentries when the first shadowblade rolls out and kills half your team, you get them at rune spots as soon as you can afford them, really, and deward asap) and you have to start being weary of the smoke ganks, and start thinking about them yourself. Also learning to properly pull/stack and keep the favorable equilibrium.
I learned this by being "boosted" by my 4k friend. Basically, he got me into a match where practically all people on our team are 3-4.5k, except for me... at 1.2k. Our average mmr was thus screwed, and they had around 800 greater average MMR. Their whole team announced tis 'in the bag', but then their hell started.
I did not play as badly as they were hoping I would - I had already learned more advanced mechanics before I've started playing that match - I've watched a lot of professionals play, and I am fully aware of all the things that high mmr players in 5 stacks can do. Thus I was not surprised at any point. I even counterpicked them really hard, was our safelane carry, got babysat by two good supports, and generally got farmed while my team created space for me. Were I a worse player, I'd have tried engaging in already lost fights and ended up feeding - but instead I picked my battles wisely, and only died a few times, when the fights were pretty inevitable and did not roll out in our favor. We ended up stomping them in the end, and there wasn't much they could've really done in the end.
This was not the only game I've played with/against people with much higher MMR where I've actually done a pretty good job - I have at no point felt inferior to players who have had MMR 3x as high as mine.
So what's the moral of this story? If you want to get out of the trench - first learn advanced tactics/mechanics there are in the game, EVEN if you're playing solo, but also learn to support well. Find some people who have much higher MMR, get a grip on how it feels, see what those "higher mmr" people are doing. Especially 5 stacks. But most importantly, if you've got calibrated badly a long time ago, you should really adapt to the game when you try ranked again, and that's the whole point of this thread.
Because if you can't support well, and change the tide of fights, and don't have a firm grasp of some mechanics, you're not going to rise in MMR. At your level, either get some teamfight supports, or supports that can save your allies. Or a support who can aid ganks very well. Whatever. If you understand the support mentality and constantly learn new mechanics and improve up on them, you're going to rise out of the trench, because in case you're that low, you have an obvious advantage over the others who are oblivious to them, and who have learned to play only against bad players (aka buying shadowblade on any hero because nobody buys detection, or building every hero glass canon without bkb, because naturally nobody buys blademail to counter that, should it not be in suggested items).
Picking a pubstomp carry should not be the only recipe to rise out of trench, because if you do that every single time, you won't really rise much, as you'll get 4-5 core teams every time, as people have the same exact mentality as you do.
Try to win by filling in the gaps. Have an adaptive mentality, you're not facing the same opponents every time, whether they are in your team or the enemies'. If your team has zero initiation, that tidehunter/earthshaker pick might just be viable. As a support, buy support items to help your team.
While I understand that Daedalus is very juicy on Mirana, an Eul's, Force Staff or Scythe might be way more beneficial to your team in a fight if you need more positioning or cc, though Daedalus is okay on a support Mirana if you really need more rightclick to pull fights off, but you'll need good judgement to see whether that's the case.
TL;DR - Adapt your playstyle if you want to rise, do thing you may not initially like or want, but fill in the gaps your team has. Sometimes it does not mean "pick a pubstomping mid and hope to get mid".
I'm writing this post mainly to try to fend off my frustration of solo supporting many many games because I get TA Slark Bloodseeker Shadowfiend teams way too often.
