Dota 2 New Items (Thoughts)

[sentrywiz]

Hey all dota luverz

I wanted to hear your thoughts on the load of new items in dota. Personally they came as a big surprise to me, since there were so many of them added at first I was in disbelief. I still am to some point, maybe because too much change too fast is ... bad? Or maybe I am catching on slow and all of these are actually old news by now.

Moon shard
EAT YOUR HYPERSTONES!
Guardian greaves
Don't know if i like it or hate it.
Silver edge
There are 3 sange recipes now?
Lotus orb
What's the point of this? You will die, except you might kill them as well.
Glimmer cape
Not bad.
Octarine core
I never thought they would add cd reduction in dota, but... they have. Also spell vamp yaaay! Too expensive IMO.
Solar crest
This one i like the most. Very useful and versatile
Crimson guard (old by now)
I like this one as well.

What are your thoughts? Which new items you like & hate the most?

 

[Dr Super Good]

Lotus orb
What's the point of this? You will die, except you might kill them as well.

Obviously for more tanky builds as a possible anti glass cannon. As long as you can take more spell damage than they can you will always be better off after they cast an ability on you which is reflected. Also casts a dispel which could come in handy.

 

[sentrywiz]

Obviously for more tanky builds as a possible anti glass cannon. As long as you can take more spell damage than they can you will always be better off after they cast an ability on you which is reflected. Also casts a dispel which could come in handy.

I guess you have a point if you have a bigger health pool than the enemy and they damage themselves with their own spells. Otherwise, for near same health pool heroes, this is useless. Linken, Pipe or that new cape item is better.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Otherwise, for near same health pool heroes, this is useless.

It is only useless against auto attack. Even if you are a caster facing a caster with similar health pool, you will win because if he casts on you he damages himself as well as you casting on him damaging him. The more glass cannon caster they are, the better the item is even if you are not the highest health.

As such it is obviously situational and based on enemy team composition. If they are all or mostly auto attack damage heroes then it is useless. If they all or mostly rely on damage skills that can be reflected then this item would be boarder line rigged.

 

[sentrywiz]

It is only useless against auto attack. Even if you are a caster facing a caster with similar health pool, you will win because if he casts on you he damages himself as well as you casting on him damaging him. The more glass cannon caster they are, the better the item is even if you are not the highest health.

As such it is obviously situational and based on enemy team composition. If they are all or mostly auto attack damage heroes then it is useless. If they all or mostly rely on damage skills that can be reflected then this item would be boarder line rigged.

I still think its a rather expensive and not very efficient item. I'd buy it as a tank, but as nobody else. The alternatives are almost always better.

 

[LordDz]

Linken works once every 16 seconds, easily dispelled by casting a shit spell on the hero.

Bkb gives you a 10-5 seconds spell immunity with a 80-55 seconds cooldown.

Lotus orb gives you or your teammates 6 seconds of "is it worth casting my spells on this guy? + a removal of debuffs."

So it's all situational, it's not there to be an item you always buy, but rather an item you buy when it's needed, hell combine it with one of the other items and you have a very solid magic defense.

 

[graystuff111]

Lotus orb is mainly for the cleanse, buy it as a support every time vs silencer or lots of hex's. The spell reflection is cool, but mostly a deterrent from casting spells on them, but it isn't that reliable. Cleansing hex off allies is usually game winning though.

 

[sentrywiz]

Linken works once every 16 seconds, easily dispelled by casting a shit spell on the hero.

Bkb gives you a 10-5 seconds spell immunity with a 80-55 seconds cooldown.

Lotus orb gives you or your teammates 6 seconds of "is it worth casting my spells on this guy? + a removal of debuffs."

So it's all situational, it's not there to be an item you always buy, but rather an item you buy when it's needed, hell combine it with one of the other items and you have a very solid magic defense.

There are no shit spells to cast. This isn't WoW so you can macro a level 1 shit spell to trigger something then rely on blasting the hell out of them.

BKB imo is the best alternative and easily re-bought late game as the item isn't that expensive once your farm is insane. I guess Blademail + Lotus Orb is some sort of combo, but like I said - its super expensive for its low usability and limited potential.

Lotus Orb IMO is for shits and giggles, mostly giggles.

 

[LordDz]

"There are no shit spells to cast."
I'd say casting a normal spell over using an ultimate is a term of "shit spell",
Spells that can be considered "shit spells" to cast to disable linkens:
Stifling Dagger, 15 mana, 6 cd
Viscous Nasal Goo, 30 mana 1.5 sec cd.
Track, 50 mana, 4 cd
and so on.

"BKB is the best alternative and easily rebought"
As of 6.82:
Current duration and cooldown are now bound to the hero, instead of the item. This means rebuying the item no longer resets the values.

 

[BETABABY]

There are no shit spells to cast. This isn't WoW so you can macro a level 1 shit spell to trigger something then rely on blasting the hell out of them.

BKB imo is the best alternative and easily re-bought late game as the item isn't that expensive once your farm is insane. I guess Blademail + Lotus Orb is some sort of combo, but like I said - its super expensive for its low usability and limited potential.

Lotus Orb IMO is for shits and giggles, mostly giggles.

Oh right... BKB is the best alternative, until your enemy decides to go tactical and just back away whenever you activate it.. Kinda much depends on the enemy.. BKB is really easy to counter especially if the other team has damage dealer like PA or Troll.

 

[sentrywiz]

"There are no shit spells to cast."
I'd say casting a normal spell over using an ultimate is a term of "shit spell",
Spells that can be considered "shit spells" to cast to disable linkens:
Stifling Dagger, 15 mana, 6 cd
Viscous Nasal Goo, 30 mana 1.5 sec cd.
Track, 50 mana, 4 cd
and so on.

"BKB is the best alternative and easily rebought"
As of 6.82:
Current duration and cooldown are now bound to the hero, instead of the item. This means rebuying the item no longer resets the values.

Your signature link quote tricked me twice. Kudos to your evilness.

Ah. Didn't know about that BKB fix. I talk about dota and dota 2, but I don't play dota 2 (because I like warcraft graphics far more than "new, polished" ones).

In that case, I can see how and why Lotus Orb might see some play. Its still a shit item IMO.

And the spells you named aren't shit spells. Its that those heroes don't have any other spells to cast but those low cd, low mana spells. Its advantageous to the one playing vs Linken if they have such spells, but go some caster where most spells cost 200+ mana minimum. In such a case, a caster has to sacrifice something in order to break the Linken (either their cc or their damage)

Oh right... BKB is the best alternative, until your enemy decides to go tactical and just back away whenever you activate it.. Kinda much depends on the enemy.. BKB is really easy to counter especially if the other team has damage dealer like PA or Troll.

The point of BKB is to activate it when you're about to bash your enemy's head to the ground. Its a dumb mistake to activate it and THEN decide to chase after them. Also, PA or Troll ARE THE ONES buying the BKB in most cases so they won't get cc'd and die in micro-seconds.

 

[BETABABY]

Yeah I know.. But it can easily be countered. Like the one I said, its better for one to have died and the others survive than being wiped out.

 

[HappyTauren]

Guys, there are single target disables that wreck your team. Like Winter's Curse and Doom. In a game where both WW and Doom were picked on one side, the other side had 3 linkens(es?) and 2 lotus orbs. They won, because neither Doom or Winter Wyvern could really cast their game-winning ultimates.

Lotus Orb is excellent, it just won't do anything if they don't have strong single target spells, obviously, like BKB will do fuck all against a team that consists of BKB piercing assholes.

I think the best thing with lotus orb is that you can apply it AFTER some strong ultimate animation has started. For example, you can see Doom casting Doom every fucking time because there's 0.5sec of time to react. So you see where he's facing, and you throw lotus orb on the guy, and what happens is that Doom Dooms himself, and if he's a core Doom which is popular right now, that means something's fucked for that team too. You can even intercept Laguna Blade with Lotus Orb and Blademail and that Lina literally goes 100% -> 0% HP in an instant.

You have to realize that using Lotus Orb is much like manta dodging - you have to be really aware of the game and time it correctly to use it to your best advantage. Also, Lotus Orb is a perfect item to throw on your frontliner tanky hero, like DK, viper, alchemist, bristleback, wk, pudge, necro, spectre and even medusa is good with it.

 

[sentrywiz]

Guys, there are single target disables that wreck your team. Like Winter's Curse and Doom. In a game where both WW and Doom were picked on one side, the other side had 3 linkens(es?) and 2 lotus orbs. They won, because neither Doom or Winter Wyvern could really cast their game-winning ultimates.

Lotus Orb is excellent, it just won't do anything if they don't have strong single target spells, obviously, like BKB will do fuck all against a team that consists of BKB piercing assholes.

I think the best thing with lotus orb is that you can apply it AFTER some strong ultimate animation has started. For example, you can see Doom casting Doom every fucking time because there's 0.5sec of time to react. So you see where he's facing, and you throw lotus orb on the guy, and what happens is that Doom Dooms himself, and if he's a core Doom which is popular right now, that means something's fucked for that team too. You can even intercept Laguna Blade with Lotus Orb and Blademail and that Lina literally goes 100% -> 0% HP in an instant.

You have to realize that using Lotus Orb is much like manta dodging - you have to be really aware of the game and time it correctly to use it to your best advantage. Also, Lotus Orb is a perfect item to throw on your frontliner tanky hero, like DK, viper, alchemist, bristleback, wk, pudge, necro, spectre and even medusa is good with it.

Yes, we (me and Dr Super Good) came to an understanding that Lotus Orb is a great item for tanky heroes (those heroes that have more health than the spells that deal damage).

I'd totally consider buying Lotus Orb instead of Pipe on Pudge, Abbadon, Skeleton King... because in most scenarios, they have more health than the spell dealing damage. Useful in pudge's case, since he likes to hurt himself anyway so throwing a lotus orb activation to bring more nukers down with him sounds tasty.

But I wouldn't buy it on assassin or fighter heroes. BKB and Linken are far cheaper and far better than lotus orb. Its the roles that matter, as a fighter / assassin I want to kill their heroes, not lure them in a dark alley so that I can rape them with their own spells. I want to pop BKB and bash them all to the ground, or crit... HULK SMASH!

 

[Archipelago]

Yes, we (me and Dr Super Good) came to an understanding that Lotus Orb is a great item for tanky heroes (those heroes that have more health than the spells that deal damage).

I'd totally consider buying Lotus Orb instead of Pipe on Pudge, Abbadon, Skeleton King... because in most scenarios, they have more health than the spell dealing damage. Useful in pudge's case, since he likes to hurt himself anyway so throwing a lotus orb activation to bring more nukers down with him sounds tasty.

But I wouldn't buy it on assassin or fighter heroes. BKB and Linken are far cheaper and far better than lotus orb. Its the roles that matter, as a fighter / assassin I want to kill their heroes, not lure them in a dark alley so that I can rape them with their own spells. I want to pop BKB and bash them all to the ground, or crit... HULK SMASH!

I might be really late to the party here, but I'd like to give my two cents either way.

Lotus Orb, great against strong single target spells such as Doom, Roar (beast master), Lasso, Laguna blade, finger of death etc etc. Since it also dispels its great against heroes that apply purge-able debuffs or against hexes and such.

Since the stats on the Lotus Orb, a bit of armor and regen, is pretty shit most core heroes you'd rather get it on a support to place on your carry and us it similiarly to or in combination with a linken's sphere.

 

[HappyTauren]

Also, don't forget bkb piercing ultimates that are chanelled. Pudge's ult can always disable you through BKB, EXCEPT if you instantly disable him by Dismembering him back! What this means is that if you play a lategame carry where all pudge can do is blink -> dismember you in order to make his own team kill you in the meantime (through bkb, no less), you will just reflect the dismember and cancel it completely! This can be crucial in some games, obviously linkens is good in this case as well, but you can pop a linkens, as for lotus orb, you can just wait for it to time out, and by then it can be way too late to do anything. Bane also fucks himself up on lotus orb if he tries to ult somebody, he just cancels his ult. But then you have the situation with batrider, where it gets comical.