HERO CONTEST #7 - ALTAR/TAVERN Series

[Kyrbi0]

This is my suggestion for the next Hero Contest! I was honestly surprised to find that none of the 6 previous Hero Contests covered the most basic & awexome themes of all; Racial Altars and/or Neutral Taverns! That, and having personally loved the "Artist & Coder: Dualist" concept for these Hero Concepts... Well, I couldn't decide which one; so VOTE!

I'd love to get one of these started again (though, with Exams coming up & all the Poll-related things to work out, I foresee this as happening closer to the mid-end of December (winter break), hopefully).

Please take the time to vote in the Poll above, and please then post your reasons Why or Why Not. That would be most helpful.

Mainly, I'm curious if you guys feel up to the challenge, ready to try something a little new. I am excited for some of the changes proposed (see the next post), and am confident that it will change these contests for the better.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I still need to fix & finalize a few things; namely Judges, and the Voting/Judging Criteria (thoughts are welcome). Everything else should be pretty good, though. Please check both options; they are most copy-pasted, but with some big differences.

//OPTION1 (Team)

Team-Based

Hero Contest #7
ALTAR/TAVERN Series -- Artists & Coders Unite

You may remember THW's successful series of Hero Contests... This time around though, we're kicking it up a notch and trying to involve multiple aspects of the site in one tremendous contest of skill. Both artists and coders will unite together to enter into this contest: the artist will choose and create aspects of the hero's graphics while the coder will provide the hero with spells. With good teamwork, the end result will be worthy of taking a spot in the NEUTRAL TAVERNS/RACIAL ALTARS!

[[IF TAVERN]]
You may choose to create a hero for any non-primary Faction (i.e. not Alliance, Horde, Scourge, or Sentinels). You are to create the ninth hero for the Tavern, including skills fitting of that hero and the Neutral Heroes in general. You will need to consider how that hero balances with the other heroes in the Tavern and how it impacts the metagame of melee as a whole. It might sound scary, but with solid teamwork and design you can pull through with a winner!

[[IF ALTAR]]
You may choose to create a hero for any of the primary Factions (i.e. Alliance, Horde, Scourge, and Sentinels). You are to create the fifth hero for that race, including skills fitting of that hero and that race. You will need to consider how that hero balances with the other heroes in the race and how it impacts the metagame of melee as a whole. It might sound scary, but with solid teamwork and design you can pull through with a winner!

Contest Rules:

• Two people per team, one artist, one coder.
• No entrant can be a member of multiple teams.
• Everybody is allowed and encouraged to enter, as long as they follow the rules.
• No submission may violate the Hiveworkshop Rules and Spells Rules.
• If you are both a skilled artist and coder in one, you cannot perform both tasks and be your own team. Choose to team up with another individual who needs a partner and do that part of the tasks.
• One entry per team.
• Any submission must follow a Work In Progress (WiP), before it is published and labelled as the final piece.

_______________________________________________

Hero Requirements:

• The hero must have only 4 spells, no innate abilities.
• The hero must have a distinct theme. This theme is an important part of hero design, your artwork and spells must fit into its theme. There is no defined theme for the contest, but your team must create your own theme.
• The hero should be balanced qualitatively and quantitatively as if it were a @#$ melee/tavern hero in standard WC3 melee games OR IS IT 'AS A MEMBER OF ANY OF THE RACES'.
• MUST BE FOR RACIAL ALTAR EH (Your hero must be a hero for one of the four melee races' altars. (Human, Orc, Undead, Night Elf))
• Your hero must have one "Ultimate" and three "Level-able Skills".
• Your hero must be designed with a max level of 10 in mind.
• At least two of the hero's skills must be trigger enhanced, but you may trigger more than two of them.
• You are not allowed to make purely cinematic spells. This means you cannot pause the hero, use cinematic mode for any spell, or anything of the sort.
• You are not allowed to use the spellbook ability as any of your spells. Heroes have 3 normal abilities and 1 ultimate no matter what, no bypassing it.

_______________________________________________

Specific Group Requirements:

Artist Rules:

• The artistic team member must choose to do at least one of the following:
  • Create a custom texture(s) for a model. (Unit models with >1 texture may have all non-effect textures changed)
  • Create a custom hero model with either in-game or custom animations.
  • Create custom special effect models for any number of the hero's spells and/or the hero's attack.
  • Create custom icons for the hero's spells.
  • Perform any one of the above another time for a hero's summon.
  • Perform any one of the above another time for a hero's alternate form.
• Any combination of up to 3 of the above is permissible, any more than 3 used in a single entry will result in disqualification.
• You are allowed to make a custom unit icon for your hero.
• You are allowed to import an attachable hero glow effect model for your hero.
• If you pick to texture or model a hero that is already present in the melee game, you may reimport the model with different texture paths to prevent model and texture collisions.
• If you make a texture, it has to be at least 90% freehand.
• You must post at least one WIP shot of your artistic contribution to the contest before deadline.
• All artistic work used in this competition must be made exclusively for this competition, no previous work will be accepted.

Programming Rules:

• You can use any type of coding method you'd like (JASS / GUI / vJass) in designing your spells. (Specify in the entry topic)
• All spells for the hero must be designed specifically for this contest, there will be no previously made spells allowed.
• You may use any script or system from the WHAT DATABASE database only for your map. This means if you want to use a system you, yourself, have made, it will have to be approved and in the database before the contest's beginning.
• You are allowed to import and use a dummy unit model with a single bone and the 'origin' attachment. This can be useful for some projectile spells and therefore it is allowed. (Pitch dummies with 180 degree vertical rotation are allowed as well)

Submission Rules:

• When the hero is complete, submit it to the pastebin in its own thread with the prefix [HERO7] and send me a private message with a link to the submission thread.
• The map you submit your hero in should be set up as a melee map so the hero can be tested in a standard melee game.
• Triggers should be provided to allow a single player to test the hero individually with ease and without having to build an altar and gain experience.
• All submitted entries must use (4)TurtleRock.w3x as the test map. (Modified as necessary, but not with any drastic changes)
• All submitted entries must have a filename in the format:
  <MyHeroName>.w3x
  Example: Paladin.w3x
• All submitted entries must have an in-game map name in the format:
  <MyHeroName>
  Example: Paladin
• All imported content may be no larger than 500kb.
• Submitted maps may be no larger than 750kb.

_______________________________________________

Judging Criteria:

• If more than 3 teams enter, the contest will enter into a public poll where users can distribute two points among the contestants. A person can put 1 point towards two different teams or put 2 points towards any one team; it is the user's choice.
• The teams with the highest points after the public voting stage (Up to 5 teams, depending on how many entries) will move on to be judged based on code, art, and overall hero design by a team of up to 3 judges.
  
  [[If Schulze Method Can Be Used]]
• In the poll, users will have to rank the heroes from best to worst, ignoring any of the entries that they want to.
• Clear instructions on how to vote will be posted the day the poll opens.
• The votes will then be processed using the SOME VOTING METHOD.
• The teams with the highest ranks (Up to 5 teams, depending on how many entries) will move on to be judged based on code, art, and overall hero design by a team of up to 3 judges.
  
  
• All points earned in each section of judging will be scaled to 1000 points and then weighted equally in the final tallying of points.
• Judges will grade the final (up to) 5 heroes out of 50 points, giving weight to the following:

DESIGN-ART-CODE
(20 - 15 - 15)

Design Criteria

• [50] Points Total
• ===
• [10] Theme Coherence:
  How well the skills fit together in a thematic manner such that they feel like they belong on the given hero.
• [10] Tactical Synergy:
  How well the skills of the hero work together to achieve whatever goal the hero appears to have.
• [10] Originality & Creativity:
  How original the design of the hero is in terms of creative ideas, clever implementations, or new concepts.
• [10] Melee Design Consideration:
  Includes how well the hero fits into the melee environment in terms of balance, theme, style, complicated-ness, and so forth.
• [10] Awesomeness:
  The most subjective of all grading criteria. This attempts to quantify exactly how awesome a hero's overall design feels.

Coding Criteria

• [340] Points Total
• ===
• [80] Per Spell:
• [10] Reusability
• [10] Cleanness
• [20] Efficiency
• [20] Robustness
• [20] Quality
• [20] Per Map:
• [20] Code Reuse

Artist Criteria

• [100] Points Total
• ===
• [100] Each art entry is worth up to 10 points based on criteria listed in the corresponding submission rules for that entry type, the implementation and integration of the art, the concept and theme, the style, the way it fits into the WC3 environment, and how subjectively awesome the art is.

• Username 1
• Username 2

• X % of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
• Y % of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

1st 50 reputation points & Your Entry on the award icon. 2nd 35 reputation points & an award. 3rd 25 reputation points & an award. Finished Entry 5 rep

:BEGINS: :ENDS: DAY DAY MONTH DATE MONTH DATE 2013 2013 11:59:59 GMT You have 7 weeks, 49 days, or 1176 hours to complete your submission.

//OPTION2 (Solo-Based)

Solo-Based

Hero Contest #7
ALTAR/TAVERN Series
You may remember THW's successful series of Hero Contests... This time around though, we're going back to basics and bringing it home to good ol' Warcraft. A familiar favorite with a twist; the guidelines for this contest are unique! With good planning & execution, the end result will be worthy of taking a spot in the NEUTRAL TAVERNS/RACIAL ALTARS!

[[IF TAVERN]]
You may choose to create a hero for any non-primary Faction (i.e. not Alliance, Horde, Scourge, or Sentinels). You are to create the ninth hero for the Tavern, including skills fitting of that hero and the Neutral Heroes in general. You will need to consider how that hero balances with the other heroes in the Tavern and how it impacts the metagame of melee as a whole. It might sound scary, but with solid teamwork and design you can pull through with a winner!

[[IF ALTAR]]
You may choose to create a hero for any of the primary Factions (i.e. Alliance, Horde, Scourge, and Sentinels). You are to create the fifth hero for that race, including skills fitting of that hero and that race. You will need to consider how that hero balances with the other heroes in the race and how it impacts the metagame of melee as a whole. It might sound scary, but with solid teamwork and design you can pull through with a winner!

Contest Rules:

• Everybody is allowed and encouraged to enter, as long as they follow the rules.
• One entry per person.
• No submission may violate the Hiveworkshop Rules and Spells Rules.
• Any submission must follow a Work In Progress (WiP), before it is published and labelled as the final piece.

_______________________________________________

Hero Requirements:

• The hero must have only 4 spells, no innate abilities.
• The hero must have a distinct theme. This theme is an important part of hero design, your artwork and spells must fit into its theme. There is no defined theme for the contest, but your team must create your own theme.
• The hero should be balanced qualitatively and quantitatively as if it were a @#$ melee/tavern hero in standard WC3 melee games OR IS IT 'AS A MEMBER OF ANY OF THE FACTIONS'.
• MUST BE FOR RACIAL ALTAR EH (Your hero must be a hero for one of the four melee factions' altars. (Human, Orc, Undead, Night Elf))
• Your hero must have one "Ultimate" and three "Level-able Skills".
• Your hero must be designed with a max level of 10 in mind.
• At least two of the hero's skills must be trigger enhanced, but you may trigger more than two of them.
• You are not allowed to make purely cinematic spells. This means you cannot pause the hero, use cinematic mode for any spell, or anything of the sort.
• You are not allowed to use the spellbook ability as any of your spells. Heroes have 3 normal abilities and 1 ultimate no matter what, no bypassing it.

_______________________________________________

Specific Requirements:

Artistic Rules:

• The artistic side must be accomplished by choosing to do at least one of the following:
  • Use a custom texture(s) for a model. (Unit models with >1 texture may have all non-effect textures changed)
  • Use a custom hero model with either in-game or custom animations.
  • Use custom special effect models for any number of the hero's spells and/or the hero's attack.
  • Use custom icons for the hero's spells.
  • Choose any one of the above another time for a hero's summon.
  • Choose any one of the above another time for a hero's alternate form.
• Any combination of up to 3 of the above is permissible, any more than 3 used in a single entry will result in disqualification.
• You are allowed to use a custom unit icon for your hero.
• You are allowed to import an attachable hero glow effect model for your hero.
• If you pick to texture or model a hero that is already present in the melee game, you may reimport the model with different texture paths to prevent model and texture collisions.

Programming Rules:

• You can use any type of coding method you'd like (JASS / GUI / vJass) in designing your spells. (Specify in the entry topic)
• All spells for the hero must be designed specifically for this contest, there will be no previously made spells allowed.
• You may use any script or system from the WHAT DATABASE database only for your map. This means if you want to use a system you, yourself, have made, it will have to be approved and in the database before the contest's beginning.
• You are allowed to import and use a dummy unit model with a single bone and the 'origin' attachment. This can be useful for some projectile spells and therefore it is allowed. (Pitch dummies with 180 degree vertical rotation are allowed as well)

Submission Rules:

• When the hero is complete, submit it to the pastebin in its own thread with the prefix [HERO7] and send me a private message with a link to the submission thread.
• The map you submit your hero in should be set up as a melee map so the hero can be tested in a standard melee game.
• Triggers should be provided to allow a single player to test the hero individually with ease and without having to build an altar and gain experience.
• All submitted entries must use (4)TurtleRock.w3x as the test map. (Modified as necessary, but not with any drastic changes)
• All submitted entries must have a filename in the format:
  <MyHeroName>.w3x
  Example: Paladin.w3x
• All submitted entries must have an in-game map name in the format:
  <MyHeroName>
  Example: Paladin
• All imported content may be no larger than 500kb.
• Submitted maps may be no larger than 750kb.

_______________________________________________

Judging Criteria:

• If more than 3 teams enter, the contest will enter into a public poll where users can distribute two points among the contestants. A person can put 1 point towards two different teams or put 2 points towards any one team; it is the user's choice.
• The teams with the highest points after the public voting stage (Up to 5 teams, depending on how many entries) will move on to be judged based on code, art, and overall hero design by a team of up to 3 judges.
  
  [[If Schulze Method Can Be Used]]
• In the poll, users will have to rank the heroes from best to worst, ignoring any of the entries that they want to.
• Clear instructions on how to vote will be posted the day the poll opens.
• The votes will then be processed using the SOME VOTING METHOD.
• The teams with the highest ranks (Up to 5 teams, depending on how many entries) will move on to be judged based on code, art, and overall hero design by a team of up to 3 judges.
  
• All points earned in each section of judging will be scaled to 1000 points and then weighted equally in the final tallying of points.
• Judges will grade the final (up to) 5 heroes out of 50 points, giving weight to the following:

Design Criteria

• [50] Points Total
• ===
• [10] Theme Coherence:
  How well the skills fit together in a thematic manner such that they feel like they belong on the given hero.
• [10] Tactical Synergy:
  How well the skills of the hero work together to achieve whatever goal the hero appears to have.
• [10] Originality & Creativity:
  How original the design of the hero is in terms of creative ideas, clever implementations, or new concepts.
• [10] Melee Design Consideration:
  Includes how well the hero fits into the melee environment in terms of balance, theme, style, complicatedness, and so forth.
• [10] Awesomeness:
  The most subjective of all grading criteria. This attempts to quantify exactly how awesome a hero's overall design feels.

Coding Criteria

• [340] Points Total
• ===
• [80] Per Spell:
• [10] Reusability
• [10] Cleanness
• [20] Efficiency
• [20] Robustness
• [20] Quality
• [20] Per Map:
• [20] Code Reuse

Artist Criteria

• [100] Points Total
• ===
• [100] Each art entry is worth up to 10 points based on criteria listed in the corresponding submission rules for that entry type, the implementation and integration of the art, the concept and theme, the style, the way it fits into the WC3 environment, and how subjectively awesome the art is.

D-Concept (10)
C-Coding (10)
D-Synergy (10)
D-Balance (10)
A-Aesthetics/Visual (05)
D-Originality (15)

~~~UNFINISHED~~~

• Username 1
• Username 2

• X % of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
• Y % of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

1st 50 reputation points & Your Entry on the award icon. 2nd 35 reputation points & an award. 3rd 25 reputation points & an award. Finished Entry 5 rep

:BEGINS: :ENDS: DAY DAY MONTH DATE MONTH DATE 2013 2013 11:59:59 GMT You have 7 weeks, 49 days, or 1176 hours to complete your submission.

 

[cosmicat]

Racial/Altar Hero:
Whether you meant "potential racial hero for a custom race" or "new hero for an existing race", I prefer the idea of a hero that not only has its own theme, but would fit in well with three other heroes of similar theme. As we've discussed, I believe the existing "racial" heroes are better-balanced in melee gameplay than the tavern heroes, generally, and balance is an interesting constraint (even if nobody else tries to do it).

~~~:
This seemed like an especially divisive issue, so I wished to call attention to it.

Solo (In-Game Resources):
This seems like an interesting challenge (though without making an exception for a Hero Glow attachment, most of our heroes will be unsparkly). Both "solo" options appeal to my reluctance to ask anyone for assistance; this one appeals to my interest in limitations.

 

[TriggerHappy]

I'd be interested in this, maybe.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Racial/Altar Hero:
Whether you meant "potential racial hero for a custom race" or "new hero for an existing race"...

Definitely the latter (thought that was obvious...). No way to properly constrain things if anyone can make a hero for whatever custom race... I don't even...

Now, that's not saying people can't design, say, a (Jungle) Troll hero for the Orcish Horde, and then insert it into their custom (Jungle) Troll race... Nosiree bob, nothing wrong with that.

...and balance is an interesting constraint (even if nobody else tries to do it).

Lol. Well, that shouldn't be too much of an issue, since Balance is definitely going to be one of the Judging/Polling Criteria.

~~~:
This seemed like an especially divisive issue, so I wished to call attention to it.

Curse you, cosmicat. Curse you.

(though without making an exception for a Hero Glow attachment, most of our heroes will be unsparkly).

Oh, I'm definitely good for making an exception in Hero Glows & such.

 

[GreeN!X]

Racial/Altar Hero?
This would be my choice since imo, the tavern heroes would be a theme that is, I guess too broad. Users could just make something out of their mind, balance it out and it could fit as tavern heroes. Racial needs to be more thought of and has to fit with the three other heroes and possibly the units in that race too.

Team-Based?
I like to go solo but there would be times that I'll be too lazy to work on an entry so I'd have some helping hand. I'm not that good in triggers too.

Solo (In-Game Resources)?
This would be a pretty good challenge.

EDIT: 1,400!!!!!

 

[Kyrbi0]

Racial/Altar Hero?
This would be my choice since imo, the tavern heroes would be a theme that is, I guess too broad. Users could just make something out of their mind, balance it out and it could fit as tavern heroes.

Huh. I'll have to change that in the first post, as I thought it was more clear. However, Tavern has plenty of options for theme, without people having to resort to non-Warcaft stuff. I mean, you pretty much can pick any "non-main-Faction" race (i.e. generally not Humans, Orcs, Elves, (Scourge) Undead, Tauren, Dwarves, etc)... And in fact, I could even see a contestant rationalizing someone from a "main Faction race" by saying it's a dissident, or a splinter-faction, or a rebel from the mainstream (i.e. a non-aligned Human Marksman or Dwarven Hunter... a rogue Undead (well, I guess Forsaken)... a xenophobic Troll Warrior... Etc.

WAER IS EVERYBODY? Man, I was hoping this would get a bit more notice...

 

[A.R.]

I'm interested but I'm not feeling the theme, which is just like WC3C's Hero Contest #3. Which we were in
I'm digging the idea of a "Faction Renegade" hero though, that's much more catchy. You analyse the aspects of a Warcraft culture and ask what would drive a member of that culture to go rogue.

... Although if WoW is anything to go by, disgruntled members of any faction invariably join doomsday cults only to be mowed down by the thousands.

 

[Daffa]

Racial/Altar Hero?
I like this one in term that it's pretty restrictive to the race (so it's easy to brainstorm ideas that are relevant to the race. This also give a "creativity" challenge more than the other one, as you need to know the balance of the targeted race.

Solo (In-Game Resources)?
I like This one because it has a restriction that is very challenging, even for pro hero makers, Where one is challenged to be creative with whatever restriction WE has for in-game models and icons.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Lol, starting the thread & poll without explaining my vote.

~~~

To be honest, between the Themes of Racial/Altar Hero and Neutral/Tavern Hero, I could care less. I love & have ideas for both. I'd only like to see Racial/Altar because someone (else) might do a Jungle Troll hero.

Then, when it comes to the Role of the contest, I chose Team-Based, not only because I desperately want to see cool new models, but I've had really great experiences with Team-based stuff; really brings the site together.

However, it does have it's Cons (mainly being harder to set up & more prone to team-failure (two people = two liabilities )), so I'm totally cool with doing Solo (In-Game Resources) if that's what people want. No more "LOL DL WHATEVER TO MAKE YOUR MAP", this would really force people to be creative instead of just mass-downloading pretty art. Let's make this about ideas, not about models!

 

[Kyrbi0]

~bump~

 

[Kyrbi0]

~b-UUUUmp~

 

[Bannar]

Solo-based <-> In-game-resources <-> Racial
Hybrid =)

"Racial" stands for implementing race-themed hero which would fit one of standard races available in wc3 y?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Solo-based <-> In-game-resources <-> Racial
Hybrid =)

That's what I like to hear. Thanks for posting!

"Racial" stands for implementing race-themed hero which would fit one of standard races available in wc3 y?

[[IF ALTAR]]
You may choose to create a hero for any of the primary Factions (i.e. Alliance, Horde, Scourge, and Sentinels). You are to create the fifth hero for that race, including skills fitting of that hero and that race. You will need to consider how that hero balances with the other heroes in the race and how it impacts the metagame of melee as a whole. It might sound scary, but with solid teamwork and design you can pull through with a winner!

Yes.

 

[Kyrbi0]

~bump~

 

[Anachron]

What about the judges? They don't get anything?
I remember Hero Contest 6, with more than 20 contestants.

 

[Kyrbi0]

What about the judges? They don't get anything?
I remember Hero Contest 6, with more than 20 contestants.

What about the judges? You mean how they should be treated or something?... Ah dannae. Kinda depends on who's available, who wants to, how many people we have...
Not sure I understood the question.

I highly doubt we'll get so many contestants this time around, but I can dream. However, regardless of how many show up, we should have a reasonable and fair set of guidelines to organize all of them. Any thoughts on such?

 

[Bannar]

Use the guidelines from previous contests, and in regard to judges - Anachron was speaking about possible rewards for judges participation in this contest.
Honestly, checking 20 projects, writing option, documenting it properly probably takes enough time to prepare one of such projects yourself, thus reward might be a cookie that child needs before it "willingly" goes to school :>

 

[Kyrbi0]

... and in regard to judges - Anachron was speaking about possible rewards for judges participation in this contest.
Honestly, checking 20 projects, writing option, documenting it properly probably takes enough time to prepare one of such projects yourself, thus reward might be a cookie that child needs before it "willingly" goes to school :>

That's an excellent point, and perhaps one that should be considered for all Hosted Contests here in the Arena. Some of these judges (esp. Hero & Spell contests, with all those "easy-to-look-at-but-difficult-to-comprehensively-judge" entries) really deserve something for their services. Something to bring up with a Mod/Admin, though, I'd say.

Use the guidelines from previous contests,...

Now here I'm going to politely disagree. I do so not only because I spent a great deal of time crafting and honing the existing guidelines as indicated in this thread, but because I honestly believe there are several big problems with the way things have been run (in Hero (and other) Contests in the past) and have worked to rectify them here.

Have you actually read the guidelines (& then hopefully voted on which form of Contest you prefer)? I'd love to hear your thoughts (or anyone else's constructive criticism) on it. : )

 

[Bannar]

I noticed one, but it happened ~2-3 years ago. In one contest I was a judge, in second I was participating. There were few folks with horde of followers. The points division between "public votes" and "judge review" was done unappropriately and even though there was a couple of more promising projects, horde won the battle without leaving even 3rd place for some.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I noticed one, but it happened ~2-3 years ago. In one contest I was a judge, in second I was participating. There were few folks with horde of followers. The points division between "public votes" and "judge review" was done unappropriately and even though there was a couple of more promising projects, horde won the battle without leaving even 3rd place for some.

Not sure I get all of what you're saying, but I see how your past experience gave you insight into what might be fixed. In fact, that's exactly one of my problems with earlier contests (and something I took into account when I designed my guidelines); the Public Vote was given waaaay too much power with far too few guidelines or accountability measures.

Horde is, however, best pony, so I can understand that.

 

[Bannar]

I have never watched an episode of those "ponies", I dont like them, whatmore for the first time someone told me one of those pseudo animal's name. Horde reflects the popularity and the amount of "friends" for given person.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I have never watched an episode of those "ponies", I dont like them, whatmore for the first time someone told me one of those pseudo animal's name. Horde reflects the popularity and the amount of "friends" for given person.

Umm... Ok then.

~~~

So, anyone have more thoughts? Surely there's to be some debate or rancor about the propositions?

 

[Bannar]

Guess poll was up for more than enough. There was also plenty of time to speak. Subject has been chosen, just judges are not there.

Of course, there is no hurry. We can still loop this over and over.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Guess poll was up for more than enough. There was also plenty of time to speak. Subject has been chosen, just judges are not there.

Of course, there is no hurry. We can still loop this over and over.

Nonsense, the poll still has meaning... Never mind, apparently it closed. Well that stinks. I'll have to find a way to re-open it; we didn't have nearly enough conversation. :<

I appreciate the vouch of confidence, but I do not feel that enough people (especially the people who would be involved, the "regulars" at these Hero Contests) have noticed & voted & responded in this thread. We've had merely 8, and only about ~3/4 that have given any feedback. This thing definitely won't start without moderator backing, but it even more definitely won't start if people aren't excited about it.

So, on that note: have you read the guidelines? If so, do you think they are well-worded/comprehensive/informative/etc?

 

[Orcnet]

So uh, did this started already? lol.

Btw what's the difference between Racial/Altar Hero and Team-Based? isn't Altar heroes equivalent to the Team base idea or its specific team's pick? if you would visualize the importance of teaming MK + Arch, well that's that. Or maybe I'm just sniffing my nose in melee maps?

 

[Kyrbi0]

So uh, did this started already? lol.

Uh, nope. It may be an old(er) topic, but you'll notice the very few amount of people posting on it... Having seen the success of previous Hero Contests (10-20 contestants), I'd rather not start this until it has some more attention. Would be kind of a lame contest with only 1-4 contestants.

Just playing the waiting game; but go ahead and let people know about this. I know they're out there. I really want to get some good thoughts on the Theme & Rules and stuff as well.

Btw what's the difference between Racial/Altar Hero and Team-Based?...

Good question. If you'll notice, the 5 options are separated/set off by "~~~", where I tried to show that it was really 2 different polls in one. Basically, I wanted people to weigh in on both the THEME (what kind of heroes we're making: tavern heroes or racial heroes) and the ROLE (how we are making the heroes, i.e. running the contest: in teams or solo).

So the difference between "Racial/Altar Hero" and "Team-Based" is a false difference. If you wanna work as a team to make a racial/altar hero, then both should be voted on. Otherwise, vote for something else. But the first 2 and the last 3 are the sort of "mini-polls" I'm talking about.

Thanks for posting. Thoughts?

 

[Orcnet]

Oh I see it now, let's probably wait for others that might join here. I kinda want this to happen since every time I join a contest I keep bailing out coz of RL lol.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Oh I see it now, let's probably wait for others that might join here. I kinda want this to happen since every time I join a contest I keep bailing out coz of RL lol.

Hey, believe me I'm all for starting it. But just like every other contest, unless people know about it & are excited for it, it won't get very far. So let people (esp. old Hero Contest dudes) know about it; see if we can get some excitement going. If not, well, I'm willing to give it some more time.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

I might join in if you start it in the summer

 

[Kyrbi0]

That would be ideal. Spread the word? : )

 

[Kyrbi0]

~~~

So HEY, it's summer now (at least for me ), and I'm just wondering if we still have any interest in this here Contest! Heck, it's been long enough (nearly 1.5 yrs since the start of the last one :O...); let's get a proper Hero Contest on!

Who's with me?

 

[Daffa]

Can't wait for the launch, for the contest theme what will we stick at?

 

[Kyrbi0]

Good to hear someone other than me on this thread.

Can't wait for the launch, for the contest theme what will we stick at?

To be honest, I have no idea. Ideally it should be when the most people are available; however, though several people have shown interest, they've never done so at the same time, leading me to question the success of a venture at any given time.

On the other hand, sometimes it seems that a contest just needs to be started, and people will start to pay attention & join.

I am somewhat ambivalent; I have some free time here & there, though things might get busy for me real quick. But like I said, I wouldn't mind hearing some consistent consensus.

As for the Theme; well I suppose since we went to all the trouble to make a Poll, we'll probably stick with what people (appear to) want: "Racial/Altar Hero" and "Solo (In-Game Resources)", which should be interesting. Already have a few ideas.

 

[Direfury]

Sucks that it isn't a group effort thing; just imagine what I could do if I really buckled down and created a hero model and related SFX, with someone else working on his/her kit.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Sucks that it isn't a group effort thing; just imagine what I could do if I really buckled down and created a hero model and related SFX, with someone else working on his/her kit.

It has it's pros & cons, but I too really love(d) the "team effort" of an artist & coder working together.

But hey, who knows. This is just one poll, one contest; perhaps next time around we can shake things up even farther & do a "Team-Hero Contest" in the style of the Paired Mapping Contest. As long as I'm around & un-swamped, I'll do it. Heck, the stuff is all written up for it already (in the first post), so it's easy enough.

 

[Vinz]

Votes:
- Racial/Altar Hero
More flavor than neutrals.
- Team based
Teamwork i$ nice.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Thanks for your vote(s) & thoughts. While "Team-Based" isn't currently winning, it might be that those who voted for "Solo" aren't available, so we can revert to the other if necessary.

The big question in my mind is about starting it: Do we keep posting here & wait for enough people to be interested/available simultaneously? Or is there some merit to the idea of simply starting the darn thing and letting the site header advertise & garner attention?

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[Bannar]

Kyrbi0, honestly the second proposition is one that is more promising
Waiting longer may discourage more ppl than starting contest with uncertain number of participants.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'm kinda thinkin' the same, though I wouldn't mind a few more voices. Though that proposition is a bit biased towards me, I'll admit; I'm currently very much more free now than I will be in (hopefully) a few week's time.

 

[Bannar]

I'm busy even now, while holidays are up, yet most ppl (including me) are certainly more "freeish" now than if we start this lets say at October

 

[Vinz]

Can we just already start this.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

I have time to join in if you start it soon

 

[Vinz]

See? Three users have more time if it starts soon. @Mods

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ok. EVERYONE PM EVERYONE.

No but really, maybe Deolrin & Pharaoh? Who does this, generally?

 

[eubz]

Can we have the mechanics here? I could not seem to understand what should be the hero to be considered altar/racial. Would they be confined to just the 4 default races or some other races we know?

 

[Bannar]

Pharaoh_ is my choice. Not to deny any mod, I'm just certain Pharaoh_ will do his job professionally. However, he might be busy as people tend to be

 

[Kyrbi0]

Can we have the mechanics here? I could not seem to understand what should be the hero to be considered altar/racial. Would they be confined to just the 4 default races or some other races we know?

Hm, I thought it was well-described... Nonetheless, as evidenced in this example, if the "Racial/Altar" option is chosen, each entrant must create a Hero that would "fit in the Altar of each Faction (Alliance, Horde, Scourge, Sentinels) as a 5th hero". I suppose this could be up for discussion, but in my estimation this means any "Race" that makes up each "Faction" could be chosen. So choosing "Alliance" lets you choose between Humans, Blood Elves, Ironforge/Wildhammer Dwarves (and, possibly, technically, High Elves & Gnomes). Night Elf & especially Undead are a bit trickier (I guess 'any race' for Undead, as long as it's Undead... Undead Dwarf FTW! ).

So don't pick, like, a creep race & try to "work it into" a race (i.e. Kobolds in Horde, or Worgen in Human*), nor should one make up a race to go into a Faction (i.e. Aliens or Space Orcs, etc)

*Actually, I could kinda see Worgen for the Alliance (as they were a branch of the Alliance to start with)... And one could try to rationalize a combo (i.e. Orc/Ogre hybrid (*cough* Beastmaster *cough*) that would fit into a Faction (i.e. Horde), but then again, that strikes me more as a Neutral-type.

~

Basically, a strong distinction between "Faction" and "Race" is important. Make a Hero that is of any Race in any (of the four) Faction(s).

 

[Pharaoh_]

May I offer my two cents here?
Since I see that you guys want the Racial/Altar theme, I can't help it but highlight a few mishaps on both the creation process and the judging.
If you think about it, this limits the concept, because you cannot fit any kind of ability on the hero, since they are bound to a specific race. That is, you only get to create interesting mechanics, but the concept will already be defined in a way. Consequently, the Concept criterion is automatically set aside at most.

What I basically see here is an illusion of having to select a faction, but after all, this is not going to be assessed. The judge will get to evaluate the hero and then determine where this hero belongs. Thus, you are in either case free to pick any race, which gets us back on the primary question: what's the point of this (given that every contest works this way).

The "Altar" definition is pretty much granted; the Balance criterion guarantees that the hero can be compared to the default heroes, which means that you can set him as a replacement of those anyway. This means that we end up having the Racial approach only, which raises the questions above.

I really encourage you to rework on the idea or pick another theme. At the moment, you take something regular and you turn it into a theme.

 

[Kyrbi0]

First of all, I am curious; have you personally entered a Hero Contest before? I have not been keeping track.

May I offer my two cents here?

Nope. Only 25-cent-minimum offerings are accepted.

j/k

Since I see that you guys want the Racial/Altar theme, I can't help it but highlight a few mishaps on both the creation process and the judging.
If you think about it, this limits the concept, because you cannot fit any kind of ability on the hero, since they are bound to a specific race. That is, you only get to create interesting mechanics, but the concept will already be defined in a way. Consequently, the Concept criterion is automatically set aside at most.

I suppose this depends on your definition of "Concept"; as far as I can tell, the Concept is not any more limited than in any other contest (Tauren Thaumaturge? Undead Wraith Lord? Goblin Profiteer? Troll Headshrinker? Human Marksman? Elven Warmage? Satyr Diabolist? Naga Aberrant? Pandaren Sumo? The sky's the limit, so far as I can tell).

But more importantly, I fail to see what you mean by "Concept criterion is automatically set aside at most". As far as I can see, there is no "Concept" critera. The closest thing is the "Design" section of Judging Criteria which reads:

Design Criteria
[50] Points Total
===
[10] Theme Coherence:
How well the skills fit together in a thematic manner such that they feel like they belong on the given hero.
[10] Tactical Synergy:
How well the skills of the hero work together to achieve whatever goal the hero appears to have.
[10] Originality & Creativity:
How original the design of the hero is in terms of creative ideas, clever implementations, or new concepts.
[10] Melee Design Consideration:
Includes how well the hero fits into the melee environment in terms of balance, theme, style, complicatedness, and so forth.
[10] Awesomeness:
The most subjective of all grading criteria. This attempts to quantify exactly how awesome a hero's overall design feels.

All of those criterion, I feel, are adequately solvent regardless of the Theme chosen (heck, even for other Hero contests).

What I basically see here is an illusion of having to select a faction, but after all, this is not going to be assessed. The judge will get to evaluate the hero and then determine where this hero belongs. Thus, you are in either case free to pick any race, which gets us back on the primary question: what's the point of this (given that every contest works this way).

We should first be very clear on the distinction between a "Race" and a "Faction". It seems we are both throwing those around as near-synonyms, but we need to watch for that.

I'm not sure I understand. If by "illusion" you mean that the choice does not affect Judging or Voting, then yes; regardless of what faction is chosen, the Judging & Voting will ultimately be the same; the importance is how well the Hero fits the chosen race). But if by "illusion" you mean that the choice does not affect anything... Well I disagree, as stated above. However, the choice of race is the same choice presented in a myriad of other contests, and while purely aesthetic, it gives the contestants the freedom of how to present their Hero (for example, with a similar skillset ("Role") I could create a Troll Medicine Mon, a Satyr Tricklord, and an Elven Illusionist. Won't affect Judging, but it's part of the fun of design).

I am also unsure as to what you feel the Judges' role in all this is. The Judge won't be "picking" a race/faction to see if it matches the Hero; that's all set aside & picked from the very beginning by the contestant(s) (i.e. "we're making a Human Grand Marshal"). It's up to the Judge to make sure that this choice fits (Probably under Design: Melee Design Consideration, though I could be wrong).

The "Altar" definition is pretty much granted; the Balance criterion guarantees that the hero can be compared to the default heroes, which means that you can set him as a replacement of those anyway. This means that we end up having the Racial approach only, which raises the questions above.

I'm sorry, but this is just not true. In many of the contests, it was not clear (explicitly stated or otherwise) what the created Heroes were to be compared to. In particular, I reflect upon the most recent contest (hosted by yourself), "Invasion of the Burning Legion", wherein I saw one of the widest ranges of possible "comparisons". I myself created a melee-style Hero, but I could not compete against more exciting & flashy Heroes designed for AoS's and Arena's and the like.

On a side note, once again there is no "Balance" criterion; balance will probably be best taken into account through the "Design: Melee Design Considerations" criterion.

I really encourage you to rework on the idea or pick another theme. At the moment, you take something regular and you turn it into a theme.

I appreciate the advice, but I would encourage you to really read into the presentation and see if it doesn't assuage your concerns; at the very least, perhaps we can give this a try and see how it comes out. If there were others who shared your opinion... However, many others have expressed their excitement for this potential contest, and you need only look at these successful contests to see the fruits of contests & criterion such as these.