Techtree Contest #10 - Mythology

[Chaosy]

Including the system in the map does indeed help some people, forcing people to use it is not helping though that is by definition restriction.

 

[BlackRangerXIII]

<facepalm>
How does it help them? Let's count people who use jass on a competitive level are just a few people on the site because wc3 is dead and most of them already quit. Gui is the basic warcraft 3 scripting way and can be learned by trial and error on a graphical basis. Editing triggers is quite the same as editing an unit.
As i said in our earlier conversation, giving people the freedom of choice to do it either way jass/ gui whatever they prefer, but lets say the basic meele map rules have to be applied. That way there would'n be even such a problem. In previous contests if someone could'nt script the triggers he usually asked someone for help and there was no issue, i don't understand why is this time different.

I've told you before Jokemaster:
NEXT CONTEST!!!

Including the system in the map does indeed help some people, forcing people to use it is not helping though that is by definition restriction.

Next contest I'll remove the fucking rule

 

[Spellbound]

BlackRangerXIII, I'd hate to antagonise you in any way, but I have to agree with Jokemaster adn Chaosy, the system should not be mandatory.

Afaik, the Custom Race System was just a suggestion (in past contests), and people could use whatever system they wanted. Imposing it's use on this contest will push people away.

Plz don't be mad. It's not too late to change that one rule from making Custom Race System required to making it optional.

PS: I hope I'm not misunderstanding your stance here, btw. I get the feeling that all you've been trying to say all along was that Custom Race System had to STAY inside the map, but it's use was optional?

 

[BlackRangerXIII]

BlackRangerXIII, I'd hate to antagonise you in any way, but I have to agree with Jokemaster adn Chaosy, the system should not be mandatory.

Afaik, the Custom Race System was just a suggestion (in past contests), and people could use whatever system they wanted. Imposing it's use on this contest will push people away.

Plz don't be mad. It's not too late to change that one rule from making Custom Race System required to making it optional.

PS: I hope I'm not misunderstanding your stance here, btw. I get the feeling that all you've been trying to say all along was that Custom Race System had to STAY inside the map, but it's use was optional?

DAMMIT!!!
Fine.
The custom race system rule is Revoked

 

[Sunreaver]

Yes, Thank u

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ugh, things just exploded too fast for me to respond... I'm sorry I couldn't get to this sooner.

DAMMIT!!!
Fine.
The custom race system rule is Revoked

Thank you for seeing reason, BlackRangerXIII. The Custom Race System is amazing & useful; I'm still in touch with it's creator & he's a swell guy. But the bottom line is, you can't just create/change basic Contest requirements/criteria like that without telling anyone.

You may point out I did much the same thing when I Hosted Contests a few years back... And it's true. Except when the Theme Voting was done, I put up a WIP of the "Contest starter post" and let people get used to it & refine it before we started.

I was going to point out that, for me personally, not only did I not need to use it (for a simple Techtree Contest, I just pre-place the proper Town hall & Workers on the map for Player 1 & call it a day), but when I tried to use it (i.e. start making my race & save changes), it freaked out on me & disabled all the code (I'm guessing something to do with the JGNP I don't have?) So not only do I not need it, I couldn't use it!

These Contests have never, historically, required the usage of anything beyond the Vanilla Editor. Got JGNP, or a special system, or WurstScript? Enjoy (usually/depends). But unless it's a part of the Pre-Voting criteria ("hey guys, should we make X a requirement for this Contest" or whatever), it's just not right to throw it on there.

Again, thanks for understanding & removing it. I have a few more concerns to talk about, but they are less-pressing (& I gotta go to work).

 

[Sunreaver]

The work done

Screenies

 

[Wasabee]

Wow where did you get those Oriental buildings?
So Chinese mythology huh? Interesting.

 

[Sunreaver]

A Chinese Website. If u want i can sent to u

 

[Kingz]

Drama is always strong in THW contests.

 

[fladdermasken]

I agree with cutting out the system requirement. It's rarely a good idea to corral people into doing what you think is best for them.

You can still give out the link and tell people it's a really good idea to use it.

Also, play nice people. I can always come in and shout at some people, but I think we'd all want to avoid that.

 

[Sunreaver]

The chinese building models are here
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=h2fvoh
Credits to an unknown person

 

[Spellbound]

So I guess I'm officially joining a contest that I didn't want to at the beginning. Y'all forcing me to do research grrr. My theme will be:

... with an emphasis of Faeries and Faerie Rings - no, not the Arthurian type. Seelie and Unseelie Feys feel kinda restrictive, so if I just do English fairytales/folktales, it allows me some leeway.

Screenshot

 

[Sunreaver]

WoW nice

 

[Retera]

I'm starting on the Phoenix Race! I will have to fight for time to finish them.

Here's a cool screenshot:

Screenshot

 

[Yours Truly]

Cool-looking screenies!Where did you get those mini-phoenix from and that town hall?

 

[Astaroth Zion]

Good wips people.


Sunreaver, does your buildings have team color? In case they don´t or it´s not so evident you could add team colored banners as attachments to each building. Any way GJ.

 

[Yours Truly]

Kay,my second WIP.The mage guy is Illuminator.The normal faceless one is Warrior and the one holding bones are Huntsman while the one holding an axe is Fanatic.Town hall is Forgotten Rubble.That portal is a caster production structure.So far,it trains Illuminator.The other one is the primary troop production building that trains Warriors,Huntsmen and Fanatics.

 

[Sunreaver]

Good wips people.


Sunreaver, does your buildings have team color? In case they don´t or it´s not so evident you could add team colored banners as attachments to each building. Any way GJ.

Thanks
They don't have they were made by the modder as doodads i need an animater to animate them

 

[Spellbound]

Kay,my second WIP.The mage guy is Illuminator.The normal faceless one is Warrior and the one holding bones are Huntsman while the one holding an axe is Fanatic.Town hall is Forgotten Rubble.That portal is a caster production structure.So far,it trains Illuminator.The other one is the primary troop production building that trains Warriors,Huntsmen and Fanatics.

Visuals look consistent. Keep it up

Forgotten Rubble may not be the best name for a town hall. I mean, it's rubble, that's forgotten. Doesn't mean much. Most rubble are forgotten by default . Forgotten Ruins might be a better alternative.

 

[Kam]

Good luck everyone. Keep in mind there will be no extensions.

UI is an important part of a race. Have a look through these: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1866334-post2.html

 

[Spellbound]

I'm going to have to take some liberties with how I approach my theme. There isn't much coherence when it comes to fairies, and I don't want to delve into the whole Seelie/Unseelie thing because that would just restrict me even further in terms of models. As it stands right now, I'm creating some sort of British folktale race with fairies at the top. I guess we'll see how it goes.

 

[BlackRangerXIII]

All right
Trying to make a Norse race here
Going to be difficult though

 

[N41]

All right
Trying to make a Norse race here
Going to be difficult though

There aren't much buildings I believe..

Same happening with me
There are only pyramids everywhere..
-----
My first WIP.
(I know for now it looks like a Nerubian race lost in desert!!)

Screenshot

-----
Void of time and slow internet, my speed is slow
still I will try my best to complete b4 time.
-----
I am open to suggestions for buildings.

 

[BlackRangerXIII]

There aren't much buildings I believe..

Same happening with me
There are only pyramids everywhere..
-----
My first WIP.
(I know for now it looks like a Nerubian race lost in desert!!)

Screenshot

-----
Void of time and slow internet my speed is slow
still I will try my best to complete b4 time.
-----
I am open to suggestions for buildings.

I've remembered something
The warcraft 3 high elven Buildings have the same architecture as the Norse Buildings
So i got lucky

 

[The_Silent]

There aren't much buildings I believe..

Some of these might work:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models.php?search=naga&d=list&r=20&t=6

 

[N41]

Some of these might work:

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/models.php?search=naga&d=list&r=20&t=6

Nagas...? Hmmm....

They can serve the purpose,
But, people have a different psychology for them..
Yet I'll consider few!
Thanks for suggestion.

I've remembered something
The warcraft 3 high elven Buildings have the same architecture as the Norse Buildings
So i got lucky

Yep, will need little texturing though

 

[The_Silent]

Nagas...? Hmmm....

They can serve the purpose,
But, people have a different psychology for them..
Yet I'll consider few!
Thanks for suggestion.


Yep, will need little texturing though

Yeah, was more the fact that Sunken Ruins stuff isn't so far away from egyptian stuff, and nagas seem to have sunken ruin textures on their buildings.

 

[N41]

Yeah, was more the fact that Sunken Ruins stuff isn't so far away from egyptian stuff, and nagas seem to have sunken ruin textures on their buildings.

True..
But, when you think of Nagas you see amphibious water-borne things
on the contrary Egypt is desert almost dry and void of water!

Will have to figure out something for watery birth...

 

[The_Silent]

True..
But, when you think of Nagas you see amphibious water-borne things
on the contrary Egypt is desert almost dry and void of water!

Will have to figure out something for watery birth...

Replace it with a sand texture.

 

[Spellbound]

I've remembered something
The warcraft 3 high elven Buildings have the same architecture as the Norse Buildings
So i got lucky

Indeed. The staw roofs sells it.

 

[N41]

Replace it with a sand texture.

Thought the same..

 

[Yours Truly]

N41,try making the buildings invisible and visible again after construction

 

[Kyrbi0]

WIP & Other Sundries

Well, things are progressing; I've tried to ignore the siren-song of custom models but alas, I have fallen. I do actually have some OE stuff going, but not much. Still, several months to go. We'll see if I actually finish this.

~~~

I'm going to have to take some liberties with how I approach my theme. There isn't much coherence when it comes to fairies, and I don't want to delve into the whole Seelie/Unseelie thing because that would just restrict me even further in terms of models. As it stands right now, I'm creating some sort of British folktale race with fairies at the top. I guess we'll see how it goes.

That's... Kinda the point? You don't need to make excuses for it; that's the very nature of these Contests. And honestly it doesn't matter what any of us thinks; at this point, the only thing that matters is the Judges interpretation of how well you hewed to the Theme of the Contest and the Theme you picked for your race.

PS: I hope I'm not misunderstanding your stance here, btw. I get the feeling that all you've been trying to say all along was that Custom Race System had to STAY inside the map, but it's use was optional?

It's over with now, but no, his stance was that it's use was not optional.

I would highly consider moving the "#10" down a line so it's not cut off all weird like that.

Best image is best. : )

[*]All submissions must follow the current theme. If any model does not fit, a moderator will tell you as soon as possible as to avoid confusion (Due to the nature of the contest, where it's your representation or a self-made creation of a mythology, this rule will not apply)

You should change "model" to "entry" or "submission" and "or" to "of".

But more importantly, if it's truly "not applied", then simply remove it rather than having a note.

But most importantly, don't remove it; it's absolutely essential! "Theme" is a big part of how these Contests maintain some semblance of constraints. If I just blithely make a race that's definitely not based on any mythology (real or fictional) (like, say, the Fel Orc Horde or Easter Bunny Race), that entry should not be accepted/score low in the Judging.

[*]Your submission must be posted before the deadline. The post containing your final submission must also contain the following:

• Several screenshots of terrain and gameplay.
  
• The file in the appropriate format.

Oh boy... So for one, how many is "several"? These things must be precise. More importantly, since you have provided the map for all of us to use &amp; even specified later on that "the terrain may not be edited", why exactly are we providing pictures of it? "Gameplay" is fine; it implies we are showing our faction in action (lol).

Secondly, one cannot just say "in the appropriate format"; what is that format, specify please. I'm guessing you mean ".w3x", but what's the name? I can tell you that when I try to test my map, the name you provided is much too long, so I'm sorry but I had to change it.


Might I suggest something simple &amp; based off previous Contests here at the Hive: use the name of the site, name of the Contest, name of the contestant, and name of the entry? "THW.TC10...w3x" (in my case, "THW.TC10.Kyrbi0.Golems.w3x"). Standardize this and everything (submitting, organizing, testing) will go a lot smoother, I promise. : )

[*]Your final submission must be bug free.

Isn't this a part of the "must not break site rules" Rule? I may be wrong here.

[*]Marketplaces, Taverns, and item shops may be edited to make the game more interesting.

I don't understand this rule... If this is a Techtree (i.e. "race/faction-building") Contest, what exactly would we change about the neutral, faction-independent structures? None of the other races have interactions with them on this level...

A Contest should only be concerned with the 'skill' that it is related to. So fancy terraining in a Zephyr Contest would be ignored just as handily as nice, robust &amp; clean coding would in a Terraining Contest. For a Techtree Contest that 'net of concern' is cast a bit wider; it covers both game design &amp; coding, with a tiny bit of concern for the aesthetics (spelling/models/icons/etc). So my terraining shouldn't matter, and my "gameplay sense" for all things not a part of my faction-entry (i.e. "change (other) things" to "make the game more interesting") shouldn't really matter either, IMO.

Theme	How well the various elements of the Faction (including aesthetics & design) fit together in a thematic manner such that they feel like they are representative of the given Faction, as well as that of the chosen Contest Theme. Well-fitting & polished aesthetics which complement a cohesive Theme will be graded well; poorly-considered or lacking Thematic elements will result in a poor score.	10
Gameplay	How well the various elements of the Faction work together to achieve the tactical synergy & gameplay style the Faction has, as well as how efficiently each element performs its particular function. Strategic systems that endow an identity to the Faction, comprehensive & well-though-out roles which complement a cohesive Faction will be graded well; ill-considered, insufficient or over-compensating roles will lose points.	20
Balance	Indicates how comparable the Faction is in terms of 'playability'; i.e. the ideal Faction should win/lose 50% of the time against others of it's class. Overpowered or Underpowered units/heroes/abilities/etc will result in a poor score; properly balanced elements will mean a good score.	10
Creativity	How original the design of the Faction is in terms of innovative ideas, clever implementations, or creative concepts. Innovation and creativity will be rewarded; re-use of existing elements & poor originality will result in a poor score.	10

Glad to see my original Criteria table in there. : )

~~~


Anyway, just wanted to speak on a few of the points here. I'm no expert but I have run a few successful Contests a ways back, and clear &amp; consistent guidelines just help everything go more smoothly for you as a Host, mostly. : )

 

[Yours Truly]

Aren't these...elementals?ARGH!! Iamsoconfused

Haha,you wrote so much text.A bit lazy to read 'em all.Hopefully Ranger will respond to your post there.

 

[BlackRangerXIII]

I would highly consider moving the "#10" down a line so it's not cut off all weird like that.

No!

Best image is best. : )

I know right

You should change "model" to "entry" or "submission" and "or" to "of".

But more importantly, if it's truly "not applied", then simply remove it rather than having a note.

But most importantly, don't remove it; it's absolutely essential! "Theme" is a big part of how these Contests maintain some semblance of constraints. If I just blithely make a race that's definitely not based on any mythology (real or fictional) (like, say, the Fel Orc Horde or Easter Bunny Race), that entry should not be accepted/score low in the Judging.

I will fix it but the rule will not be applied in this contest due to the nature of Mythology since this is your interpretation of the chosen mythology

Oh boy... So for one, how many is "several"? These things must be precise. More importantly, since you have provided the map for all of us to use &amp; even specified later on that "the terrain may not be edited", why exactly are we providing pictures of it? "Gameplay" is fine; it implies we are showing our faction in action (lol).

Secondly, one cannot just say "in the appropriate format"; what is that format, specify please. I'm guessing you mean ".w3x", but what's the name? I can tell you that when I try to test my map, the name you provided is much too long, so I'm sorry but I had to change it.

Might I suggest something simple &amp; based off previous Contests here at the Hive: use the name of the site, name of the Contest, name of the contestant, and name of the entry? "THW.TC10...w3x" (in my case, "THW.TC10.Kyrbi0.Golems.w3x"). Standardize this and everything (submitting, organizing, testing) will go a lot smoother, I promise. : )

1-You will need to play with the race, period
2-"w3x" is the contest format
3-That style of naming is what will be used for the contest but it's too late to change the name of the template

Isn't this a part of the "must not break site rules" Rule? I may be wrong here.

I don't know. sorry.

I don't understand this rule... If this is a Techtree (i.e. "race/faction-building") Contest, what exactly would we change about the neutral, faction-independent structures? None of the other races have interactions with them on this level...

A Contest should only be concerned with the 'skill' that it is related to. So fancy terraining in a Zephyr Contest would be ignored just as handily as nice, robust &amp; clean coding would in a Terraining Contest. For a Techtree Contest that 'net of concern' is cast a bit wider; it covers both game design &amp; coding, with a tiny bit of concern for the aesthetics (spelling/models/icons/etc). So my terraining shouldn't matter, and my "gameplay sense" for all things not a part of my faction-entry (i.e. "change (other) things" to "make the game more interesting") shouldn't really matter either, IMO.

It's either to replace a vanilla tavern hero\Mercenary unit with a new one due to your race having the same hero\unit

Glad to see my original Criteria table in there. : )

It's useful
Somehow

Anyway, just wanted to speak on a few of the points here. I'm no expert but I have run a few successful Contests a ways back, and clear &amp; consistent guidelines just help everything go more smoothly for you as a Host, mostly. : )

Thanks for the help but
avoid posting a Wall of words and try bring the matters to Visitor messages to me, please?

 

[Spellbound]

Not gonna touch on anything else that was said except for this:

[*]Marketplaces, Taverns, and item shops may be edited to make the game more interesting.

I definitely have to agree with Kyrbi0 here. Marketplaces and Taverns should not be modified in any way. The point of the contest is to add a new race to the mix, not make space to fit one. The new race has to adapt to the existing framework, not the other way around.

[paraprashing]Muh golemz, look at them![/paraprashing]

That does get me thinking - isn't this sort of a variation on Elements? Like, your Element is 'golems'. I was very tempted to just make a bunch of different Faeries for my race, but in the end I went with wikipedia's list of weird British folklore cryptids and general description of what a Sprite was, and a Pixie, etc. For instance, did you know Sprites were associated with water? I had no idea In so being, I don't have multiple types of Sprites, but just they one, which is a water faerie.

Not saying your approach is not good, though. I'd like to hear your PoV on this.

 

[Yours Truly]

KK,third wip.All is almost complete except a bunch of units,structures,spells and upgrades.The only thing that is holding me down is time and missing resources.Kinda hard to type without mouse using Paint.
I love it when the console fits.

 

[Spellbound]

KK,third wip.All is almost complete except a bunch of units,structures,spells and upgrades.The only thing that is holding me down is time and missing resources.Kinda hard to type without mouse using Paint.
I love it when the console fits.

Oh hey custom UI

I love the visual coherence. It all looks very interesting!

 

[Yours Truly]

I love the visual coherence.It all looks very interesting!

Haha,thanks for those kind words.Hopefully I can finish this before the deadline.Otherwise it will be a complete foolish waste of time

Oh hey custom UI

Don't you recognize it?That UI is yours so uuhhh...credits?

 

[Spellbound]

Haha,thanks for those kind words.Hopefully I can finish this before the deadline.Otherwise it will be a complete foolish waste of time

Nonesense, it'll be a learning experience!

Don't you recognize it?That UI is yours so uuhhh...credits?

I was being ironic

 

[Yours Truly]

Nonesense, it'll be a learning experience!

Might be right.

I was being ironic

 

[Leo Akastenix]

For Cthulu, for a fourth hero, why not a cultist(agility based) hero that summons additional cultists and stuff?

 

[Yours Truly]

Name?
If it's not in the myth,I can't add it since it doesn't have anything to do with my race..

 

[Leo Akastenix]

Maybe, HEAD CULTIST? Any human warlock like model will do the trick

 

[Edge45]

Gonna join, but I don't know if I can finish it.
Anyway, this race's lore is based off with the Scandinavian Mythology, the forces of Muspellsheim, or maybe I'll call it the "Infernals".

 

[Leo Akastenix]

I need some myths, can any help?

 

[Yours Truly]

How about Arabian? Coz the way I see it that there's a lot of Arabian (Haradrim) models here.

 

[BlackRangerXIII]

Gonna join, but I don't know if I can finish it.
Anyway, this race's lore is based off with the Scandinavian Mythology, the forces of Muspellsheim, or maybe I'll call it the "Infernals".

I'm the one who is doing a nordic one
and that includes the Muspelli
Sorry

 

[Chaosy]

There is nothing that prevents two people from creating a race based on the same mythology.