Zero Tolerance

[Ralle]

Hmmm.. I don’t know what to say, I am speechless at what has been going on lately, but I will try anyway. So please bare with me fellow moose as I make a long winded post.

Q) Users have been concerned about the bannings and feel that they are they were pointless.
A) Alright let me take time to address this concern first, I will be addressing many of them throughout this announcement, this all started when I demoted Rui, I had noticed that something should have been done a while back about some of the other people as well, they were demoted and those that caused dramatic problems were banned, allow me to explain:

There are two types of bans here, a site ban and a chat ban. Users who were banned from the chat, that was done because we needed the chat to be under control, we had constantly asked ex-staff to not discuss private stuff in there or for other members to begin causing drama and harassing other members like this, however it was never planned to ban anyone from the site, until people started creating dozens of threads. I am going to be honest with all of you, while the chat bans will most likely get overturned in the future if you have a light record or none at all (we really needed to calm down and to show them that we still cared about the rules) we will not be overturning the few site bans we have made, those be staying banned for what they have done, those users went above and beyond to cause damage to the site:

Here are the list of users who are perma banned from the site:
leet.firefox
Mr. Bob
Rui
wereguy2

Q) Why did you demote all the good people Ralle?
A) Allow me to answer this one as well, I would like to remind you first of all that, I have final discretion on who is on the staff and that I did not demote users because I felt like it, I had done it because they were honestly detrimental to the site environment and have been for a really long. Allow me to explain:

Rui: This one was really obvious to many of the users, he had been an administrator on a rampage, he had been reported for demoting staff, banning users, global ignoring, and breaking plenty of the sexuality rules, he had been called a homophobe in many of his reports and harassing other people, he did not even use his powers on the people who actually deserved it.

DonDustin: This moderator had been reported in the past and has been considered a troll in power, I had sent him a final warning giving him one more chance, on top of the chances I have given him in the past and asked him not to discuss private staff matters in the chat, shortly after receiving my warning, he proceeded to talk about exactly what I asked him not to do and got himself demoted.

Shamanyouranus: This user has been reported and given many chances in the past, the final straw was when he allowed wereguy2 to post porn and was a part of creating said porn. It was a spiderman.gif for all you naughty people who were interested in knowing.

anarchianbedlam: This user has been reported and given many chances in the past, he had met his own demotion the day he got my warning, I had warned him that this was his last chance and shortly that night after I had gone to bed, he had been caught breaking four of the site rules in the worst way possible: sexuality, vulgar, inappropriate language, harassing.

Q) Ralle, why did you temporary disable the chat? Are you not killing the community!?
A) I. . . what? Killing the community? The chat has been disabled for an indeterminable amount of time because of the following:
The chat has been a medium or a tool during this entire drama, allowing it to be dozens of times worse, and not just this one. I believe that everyone needed a cooling off period, this will give us breathing room in restructuring the staff, because the time spent moderating it, could be used for more productive actions.

Disabling the chat will hardly kill the community, there are about 150-300 users on daily and about 15-30 use it and it’s been the same people for years, the chat is not the site, in fact, it’s just a bonus for users who partake activity in the community. If you miss the chat, I encourage you to go make your own chat in other places of the internet (Some uses already have, go check them out!) until our chat is up and running again.

Q) Ralle, you have been out of the loop for years and have no right to do anything, I disapprove of what you are doing and I want to leave.
A) All of this is partially my fault, I have been out of the loop for so long because I have been busy, working on improving this site and personal matters. I would just like to say that no one has the right to question what I can or cannot do due to my activity on this site. I have always had the same goals in mind since the start of this website and no one has the right to stop me, the intent of creating a clean and friendly environment where users can come mod Warcraft 3, has always been there, it is just a shame that it has taken this long to enforce such intents. Can you imagine what the community might have been like without all this drama over the past few years?

I understand some of you disapprove of what has been going on lately and I understand, you must do what is right and I have to do what I feel is right, if you feel that you want to leave the site for a while or for good, we simply ask that you do not break the site rules to get yourself banned, you may simply just not log in anymore or for our more organized users, we offer that you visit us at Admin Contact where you may request that your account is disabled so you can’t log in, but once you do this it cannot be taken back for a year.

Q) Why The Dark Wizard?
A) Why TDW? Well, remember the other announcement I had made about the staff being blind and the staff ignoring the actions of others because they were friends or got emotionally attached and put friendships above the site? Remember that? I had stated that I brought The Dark Wizard in who is a good personal friend of mine and I required a neutral third party that would call it as he sees it and would put the site’s interests above all else. His guidance and advice have been invaluable throughout all of this and I have asked him to remain on the staff (He was only going to stay till his job was done, which was helping me clean up) and he has agreed and will not be going anywhere any time soon, so please stop questioning me about this, last time I checked I was allowed to bring anyone on the staff, and frankly this was highly needed.

Q) Ralle, why did this happen so quickly?
A) This was something that needed to happen a long time ago but if I had the chance I would have started this a while back and had done it over the course of time, that was the intentional plan, however from the moment I demoted Rui, my hand had been forced and people made it so that action had to be taken now, so waiting any longer would have just been detrimental to the site. I believed that the ex staff members in question would have just accepted the warnings in peace and we would have moved on with our lives, unfortunately as you all can see this was not the case.

Q) Ralle, why don’t you give certain people the chance to undo their ban, like Mr. Bob? Sure they may have been posting porn and harassing/trolling for years but who cares? They make wonderful resources!
A) See, I find that highly disturbing that people would even think like that, the price for having the quality of resources from members like Mr. Bob is too expensive and I will not be paying it. I would rather have a small community and some resources, than people like him who make some great resources, but because of that they think they are immune to the site rules.

Anyone who is leaving the site for good, may delete all their resources if they so choose, or anyone could delete them any way at any time, not just because you are leaving. You own your own own artwork/models. We don’t want your resources here if it means we have to look away every time you break a rule, even if you create the most beautiful resource ever, you are not immune to the rules, this also counts for donations and other services you may have performed for this site. Nothing here gives you immunity.

A few sentences above I said this but I will say this again, for those who were shocked at what you just read: Yes I prefer to have a small community that is kind and have mediocre resources than a large community that scares away new members and hinder the process of growth, this is not the type of community I want to be associated with. I will not be stopping in my efforts to continue making this a clean/friendly community and upholding the dreams and values I originally had in mind when I first created this website. So if you refuse to accept that, I just ask that you don’t get yourself purposely banned and just leave quietly. Oh and if you ask me if I’m sure about this, one more time I will say yes, I am super sure that I would rather have every one leave before I keep putting up with this.

Q) Something something banning for saying somebody’s name..?
A) Alright not that it matters anyway because the chat has been disabled but I still wanted to clarify, back when the chat was active that we did not ban people for just mentioning an Ex Staff member’s name. Those are complete lies and rumors created by users who just want to cause drama, I have sat there watching people mention some of the Ex staff members and how they were missed etc, and that is fine, what people were banned for was the fact that some of them instead of keeping it civil, started causing drama, stating how ex staff members, sucked, or how we sucked but with a lot more violence. After we had asked members constantly not to do that.

Q) Why don’t you allow me to protest, you evil dictator?
Recently users who don’t understand or want to acknowledge that the site is changing from what they used to know, began spamming this all over the site, to prevent more of you spamming this, here is what was posted in one organized collection, (warning some of this may be a bit offensive):

http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/a.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/b.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/c.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/d.png
http://hiveworkshop.com/gfx/haxx/e.png

We understand that some people may have been afraid of the changes but what had happened above was not the correct way of expressing those fears and concerns, if anything that made things worse.

Q) Alright, I’m one of the members who is staying and is glad this is all happening, even if a bit abruptly but ultimately for the best, I do have one concern though, when are we going to hear about this rumored staff restructuring and new promotions, I heard that certain roles on the will also be outdated as the system is improved.
A) It is not a rumor, we are actually updating the way the staff functions however I don’t have much information to provide in this announcement, over the course of the following week, our community moderator will begin to provide information and keep people in the loop of what is going on, so watch out for his threads because he will be explaining all that!

Q) Do you regret what has happened?
A) No, this was coming for a really long time.

Q) Why is the thread called Zero Tolerance?
A) That means that the site is temporarily in Zero Tolerance mode, that means that we will keep banning people (not permanently unless they need it) without warning until we get things under control, we should not have to address any misconduct due to all the announcements we made, so we are to believe that any misconduct made after these announcements was done on purpose. If you feel that you don’t understand why you got picked up by ZT mode, please visit us at Admin Contact and we will review your case with you(Banned users can see AC) however there is a very high chance that we are not wrong in your banning because ZT mode will be very careful. Just don’t be shocked if you get temp banned(or if your offense was bad enough, perm banned) without a warning.

Q) When is Zero Tolerance going to end?
A) ZT will be disabled in the foreseeable future once everything is under control and once that happens, we will return to giving warnings first instead of skipping straight to the ban (There are temp bans and if the offense is bad enough a perm ban).

Now that I have addressed everyone’s questions and concerns, I would like to add a personal note here of feeling. I would like to thank everyone who has been cooperating with us during this entire ordeal, that has been very helpful to us and you can’t even begin to comprehend how grateful I am and how happy this support has made me and the staff. Thank again. I also would like to thank the users who have left/got demoted/banned for all their positive contributions to the site over the years.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle

PS: All discussion of the chat being disabled and things from this should remain in this thread, we will be making an effort to keep this thread open and instead of closing it, we will be cleaning it up as needed. However we still hold the right to close it if it gets out of hand.

PSS: Users who spread the discussion outside of this thread in regards to the chat and stuff mentioned here will receive a one week temp ban, that is why we are leaving this thread open so it all happens in one organized location.

PSS: You are permitted to discuss anything you want here in regards to these topics, mourn what has happened, be thankful, or just express your opinion, but the moment you go off topic it will be deleted. If it happens to be offensive, it will be treated in accordance with the Zero Tolerance policy.

[I3lackDeath]

Alright, I have one question for you:

Why did you disable Chat? You have well working Chat moderators, you just recently promoted VK, and TDW is one aswell. They, or even Kael alone, would be sufficient to keep Chat in order!
This was the ONLY feature that I actually enjoyed in the last few days, everything else was too frustrating to even bother about.

I also understand that you want to pretty much COMPLETELY want to restructure the whole site, but you HAVE to do it rationally!
I assume it's in your best interest that you keep most of THIS community? So you have to take their feelings into account!
Not doing so will earn you a Hive 2.0 with pretty much no community LEFT!

[Vengeancekael]

^Lol you mad.


Anyway, nice news post, wasn't expecting such a long one, although as I3lackDeath has said, if you honestly ask me, I had the chat under control and The Dark Wizard is in there a lot as well to help. Besides, everyone's calmed down a bit now.

[The Dark Wizard]

Alright, I have one question for you:

Why did you disable Chat? You have well working Chat moderators, you just recently promoted VK, and TDW is one aswell. They, or even Kael alone, would be sufficient to keep Chat in order!
This was the ONLY feature that I actually enjoyed in the last few days, everything else was too frustrating to even bother about.

I also understand that you want to pretty much COMPLETELY want to restructure the whole site, but you HAVE to do it rationally!
I assume it's in your best interest that you keep most of THIS community? So you have to take their feelings into account!
Not doing so will earn you a Hive 2.0 with pretty much no community LEFT!

Ralle stated why he disabled the chat and that he prefers a smaller community if that is what it takes.

[Chaosy]

I got one question why did DSG got demoted? I did not find info in the thread.

[I3lackDeath]

@TDW
You once again did not answer my question, and I did not ask you per se.

Ralle wanted Chat under control. Control was provided by both Kael and you.
That's why I don't understand why he disabled Chat completely.

[takakenji]

funny how in all this chaos im the only one not trolling

[Grey Nightmare]

...I'm gob-smacked, truly. But not in a bad way.
I understand some of these choices must've been very hard to make but it's incredible to see an admin out there who will actually put his site and its community before its popularity and content. It's regrettable that it had to come to this, but you're right... It really did need to be done, sooner or later.

EDIT: As for the chat, remember that Moderators (and admins) do need to sleep too... No matter how many staff you have they'll likely be a time when it's unmoderated and open to turmoil.

[Aeroblyctos]

The world moves on just like the staff comes and goes, this you must accept.

What I've heard that some members of the site was banned or title was removed without saying anything. I think we all should be informed before this happens why and if possible told what's wrong and where you can improve yourself.

In situations like this people usually overreact. We can all calm down and talk this over.

However, if you ask my opinion about the case I see this as a positive thing that the staff changes.

[aaron]

what happened this time..? Who's the culprit to this drama? (i haven't visited hive in a while and i would like to know whats going on)

[The Dark Wizard]

what happened this time..? Who's the culprit to this drama? (i haven't visited hive in a while and i would like to know whats going on)

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/hive-218918/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/moving-forward-218976/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/zero-tolerance-219127/

In that order from top to bottom.

Enjoy!

[aaron]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/hive-218918/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/moving-forward-218976/
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/zero-tolerance-219127/

In that order from top to bottom.

Enjoy!

thanks, also long time no speak dark! :P
EDIT: i still have you on steam lol

[The Dark Wizard]

thanks, also long time no speak dark! :P
EDIT: i still have you on steam lol

No problem!

Off-Topic: I see you on steam >_>

[1)ark_NiTe]

So much drama over these past few weeks. I'm kind of glad I've been away from the site. Do what you need to do though Ralle, you've always got my support man.

[The Dark Wizard]

So much drama over these past few weeks. I'm kind of glad I've been away from the site. Do what you need to do though Ralle, you've always got my support man.

I remember you :D!

Thank you for giving Ralle your support, I know it will make him feel better.

[1)ark_NiTe]

TDW, I wasn't sure if that was really you or just someone with a really similar name. It's been a long time! Hope all is well buddy.

I still pop on here from time to time. I haven't been "active" since my computer committed suicide though. Maybe one day when I get something new I'll be back. When there's a WC4 ;)

[aaron]

On another note, ralle i agree with you and am here to support you and help out if you need it.

To the other users: I have experienced/witnessed some of the ill actions of the other users listed on the ban/demoted lists.

These resignations are leaving the staff very short handed at the moment and its unfortunate to see some of them go. It's not ralle's fault, its the abusive nature of the staff without his supervision for a while. He had to do it, it was not a choice and i support him for doing so.

[The Dark Wizard]

TDW, I wasn't sure if that was really you or just someone with a really similar name. It's been a long time! Hope all is well buddy.

I still pop on here from time to time. I haven't been "active" since my computer committed suicide though. Maybe one day when I get something new I'll be back. When there's a WC4 ;)

Everything is going well. . . . well .. as well as well can be(too many wells!)

Just helping Ralle here. I hope everything is going also going well for you :)!

[M0rbid]

I stand fully behind you aswell, RALLE
(my exclamation mark key is broken).
It's great to see you more active and taking care of the community.

May I say:

~Keep on Zeroing (for good)

(The rest of the keys work fine, eh)

[Firelord213]

lol I go away for like two weeks and there's a civil war.

[Radagast]

What... the... hell?

[Devine]

I'm sure, in time, those banned will be allowed to come back. As has it always been. You really shouldn't worry about your friends. I have been banned for countless times and I'm still here.
Just give Ralle some time to think, really.
This whole "protesting" idea some of the members seem to have, is also utter nonsense, just saying. What good will come out of that, really?
You're making this worse than it is. I've been on this site for long enough to be able to say safely that this is a temporary thing.

As for the demotions: who really gives a damn? Does it matter to us if a moderator is replaced? Just for the record, the follow-up moderator won't be a total incompetent retard. Ralle actually puts thought into the staff.

[Deolrin]

Alright... So supposedly, we are allowed to discuss what you wrote in this thread? You WON'T be banning us for stating our opinion? You won't be suppressing our free speech rights? Okay then, here goes...

Rui: This one was really obvious to many of the users, he had been an administrator on a rampage, he had been reported for demoting staff, banning users, global ignoring, and breaking plenty of the sexuality rules, he had been called a homophobe in many of his reports and harassing other people, he did not even use his powers on the people who actually deserved it.

Absolutely everything in here is wrong. I was in decent ties with Rui before he got banned, and I currently have his contact information, and I must say that either your information is wrong(won't surprise me; you're almost never here, you're always busy, you have no idea what's going on in your own site) or you are vastly exaggerating Rui's so-called 'rampage'. Rui globally ignored ONE user - Mr. Bob - For reasons he, as an admin, thought were correct at the time. Mr. Bob was obviously later unignored, and therefore the problem was resolved. And that's not even to mention that you, yourself, banned Mr. Bob just now - So how can you claim that Rui was detrimental to the community?
Rui never banned anyone, either; The four bans that are associated with him by the community were executed by Archian, not Rui.
As for the mods he demoted: azlier was doing nothing in his section. Nothing at all. His last post there was in 2011. BlinkBoy was simply inactive; He hasn't been seen for a while and didn't moderate anything either. I suppose that I can't give a valid reason for Pyramidhe@d's demoting, but that would be just ONE transgression in this so-called "rampage". I'll let you know, Ralle, that Rui is personally hurt by your actions against him. He considered the Hive a "second home", and he trusted and liked you. Your actions made him deeply confused and saddened. To quote him: "I feel miserable because my life feels like several books where things never get to be explained thoroughly and decently".


DonDustin: This moderator had been reported in the past and has been considered a troll in power, I had sent him a final warning giving him one more chance, on top of the chances I have given him in the past and asked him not to discuss private staff matters in the chat, shortly after receiving my warning, he proceeded to talk about exactly what I asked him not to do and got himself demoted.

Don's case I think I should be able to defend much more easily. Don and I were talking to eachother as part of a gaming group on Skype for a year or so now, and I know him quite a bit. Don is a quiet guy who only talks when there really is a need to talk. He has never "trolled", and there is no proof of him trolling(if there is: please present it, both him and I would like to see it). As far as Don knows, he was reported maybe twice, and in both occasions, the situation happened years ago. It's true that he overreacted out of panic and frustration when you threatened him(yes, threatened, because he didn't do ANYTHING wrong before you suddenly brought up some old reports and whatnot against him and said you'll demote him), but you didn't give him neither a chance to calm down and explain himself, nor a chance to defend himself in any way at all. You just instantly demoted him, no questions asked, no investigation, no checking your own damn evidence. Don was an EXCELLENT model moderator, who was very active within his section, clearing out tons of pending models in a matter of minutes. He is a capable artist and he knows what he's doing. Demoting both him and anarchianbedlam leaves only Frankster alone to handle the model section; I'm not saying he's incapable of doing that, but I'm certain it'll be a bit harder for him now that there's no one around to help him handle the stress. If only you, Ralle, were more involved within your own damn site, if only you knew your members better, if only you knew what was going on, maybe then you would have been qualified to demote people for no reason. What makes a site good is it's community, not it's leadership.

anarchianbedlam: This user has been reported and given many chances in the past, he had met his own demotion the day he got my warning, I had warned him that this was his last chance and shortly that night after I had gone to bed, he had been caught breaking four of the site rules in the worst way possible: sexuality, vulgar, inappropriate language, harassing.
It is true that maybe a year or two ago, anarchianbedlam may have stirred up some drama within(mainly) the chat, along with a few other members(myself included, as far as I remember). But recently? Recently anarchianbedlam has done nothing wrong. "Vulgar, inappropriate language" is part of the everyday norm here on the Hive: Maybe if you spent more time in the chat, you would know this. Yes, we, your community, use cuss words often. Yes, we insult eachother, both jokingly and seriously. Yes, even the new members and the 13-year-olds. No, it's NOT driving anyone out. The Hive was never a "family friendly" site - I don't suppose YOU envision it as the kind of site that 40 year old mothers and 10 year olds children visit to pass the time? I surely hope not, because if you do, something is fundamentally wrong with your understanding of things.

Disabling the chat will hardly kill the community, there are about 150-300 users on daily and about 15-30 use it and it’s been the same people for years, the chat is not the site, in fact, it’s just a bonus for users who partake activity in the community. If you miss the chat, I encourage you to go make your own chat in other places of the internet (Some uses already have, go check them out!) until our chat is up and running again.
The chat is crucial for the current community to sustain itself. The 150-300 users who log in are 5-post people who only come here to post their ub3r 1337 h4x c00l narut0 bleach maps, or comment on models with such amazing constructive criticism as "Nice!" or "5\5". The core community are the people who frequent the chat and discuss stuff, as well as the older and more 'famous' members. Disabling the chat for no good reason(your reasoning is wrong, see commenters above) will only harm that core community, even more than you've already done by banning or demoting many of it's core members.

Can you imagine what the community might have been like without all this drama over the past few years?
YES. It would've been a horribly boring community with little to no activity beyond "5\5! I like!" and "plz maek me narut0 modelz plz"(and the like). People come here not only to mod WC3, but also because they have friends and ties here. Friends and ties that you are actively breaking by banning members for no good reason.
And yes, I do believe you've been out of the loop for too long, and therefore your judgement is absolutely invalid. The drama only adds to the site, so long as everything remains friendly and reasonable. It fixes itself after a while, anyway, and no harm is usually done.

Well, remember the other announcement I had made about the staff being blind and the staff ignoring the actions of others because they were friends or got emotionally attached and put friendships above the site? Remember that?
Oh, thank god, you finally realized that! You finally understood that you CAN'T put your friends and family into power! Wow, I was really worrying because of that Dark Wizard fellow being your friend and...

I brought The Dark Wizard in who is a good personal friend of mine and I required a neutral third party that would call it as he sees it and would put the site’s interests above all else.
WHAT THE *BEEEEEEEP*. You JUST SAID that it's hard to put the site in priority over your friends... You JUST SAID that getting emotionally attached and putting friendships over the site is a big issue with your staff... YOU JUST SAID THAT. And besides, good personal friend = neutral third party? That doesn't compute well. AT ALL. Putting a friend of yours into position will screw the site over as you care more about your friendship and less about how many innocent people he is randomly banning.

Ralle, why don’t you give certain people the chance to undo their ban, like Mr. Bob? Sure they may have been posting porn and harassing/trolling for years but who cares? They make wonderful resources!

Why, yes, yes, of course! I am certain that the ONLY reason people want Mr. Bob and other good folks unbanned is because of their amazing resources! Because other than making models, all Mr. Bob did was post porn in chat and troll other people like it was his God-sent duty.

I'm not going to bother much with this statement. Everything you just said is plain stupid. Mr. Bob didn't make models for years now. People liked him because he was a member of the core community. Because without him, the site and chat would be boring, and people would stop visiting. Because he is an interesting person and because he is fun to talk with. NOT because he made some "cool resources".
And ffs, Ralle, seriously? What makes you think Mr. Bob constantly "posted porn and harassed\trolled users"? Some 2009 reports? A member with 10 posts whining because Mr. Bob called him a noob?

Anyone who is leaving the site for good, may delete all their resources if they so choose, or anyone could delete them any way at any time, not just because you are leaving.

Oh yeah? Because that worked so well for Rui, what with you un-deleting the thread he deleted with the reasoning of "Technically, everything on this site is my property". (Which is incorrect, btw: All .MDX, .BLP, .W3X and other Warcraft III and Starcraft II related formats legally belong to Blizzard. And I wasn't aware that posting text in a website turns the author's mental property into your own property?)

You own your own own artwork/models.

Self contradicting is great, isn't it? Did you re-remove Rui's thread to cover up for your mistake? Doesn't matter, though, since you and Vengeancekael seem to have moved most of Rui's work into your own thread anyhow. Severe ties with Rui I guess?

Alright not that it matters anyway because the chat has been disabled but I still wanted to clarify, back when the chat was active that we did not ban people for just mentioning an Ex Staff member’s name. Those are complete lies and rumors created by users who just want to cause drama, I have sat there watching people mention some of the Ex staff members and how they were missed etc, and that is fine, what people were banned for was the fact that some of them instead of keeping it civil, started causing drama, stating how ex staff members, sucked, or how we sucked but with a lot more violence. After we had asked members constantly not to do that.
You PERMANENTLY banned people as soon as they brought up anything that was recently happening. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was a day, week or a few hours ban, but you PERMANENTLY, and I repeat, PERMANENTLY banned people for saying stuff like "What's going on with Rui? He was a good mod, why was he banned?". In one occasion, you even banned Joe-black-5 for doing his god-damn job. Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site, and Joe told him not to, because it is against the rules. The result? "SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT! PERMABANNED!". Your OWN. GOD-DAMN. RULES.

We understand that some people may have been afraid of the changes but what had happened above was not the correct way of expressing those fears and concerns, if anything that made things worse.

Then what IS the correct way of expressing our concerns about how much you're screwing up the site? That wasn't "spam", that was revolution, rebellion. They were telling you to stop before you made matters worse. By removing their threads and posts(there were many more that you did not bring up here) and banning them, you made matters WAY worse.

[Dr Super Good]

Oh I thought I was the only person unable to use chat. That seems more fair now, thanks for clearing that up.

I was demoted due to a slight personality clash with Ralle. Sometimes I did stuff which was meant to be funny (a bit of humour is always good) but Ralle took it the wrong way thinking I was being serious and being quite nasty. The latest demotion was because I was one of Rui's moderators (Rui over turned my demotion from before). It is only logical that I be removed as there is no longer any administrator willing to take responsibility for me.

The Dark Wizard is a nice guy who I have known for a long time now. He has done several activities over the years which have shown major success. These range from running a clan which made several well made but uncommon maps to even running dedicated game servers for various non-WarCraft III games. I advise people give him a chance. Many of the rumours about him are false and caused by individuals who (like Ralle apparently did at times) he falsely trusted in major positions.

Rui is a nice person but, like me, he suffered a personality clash with Ralle. I can understand his actions as he probably feels horribly mistreated like I did when similar events happened to me. Ralle really should not have treated us like he did as we were among his most loyal staff members and he should understand that betrayal is quite a serious thing to do among humans. In the end I am not Rui and although we have both been treated rather poorly, I will respond by not taking revenge but instead taking pity over people's poor choices and try and move on. I have always tried to be professional in approach and although that did slip in times when I was young and inexperienced I will still try and remain so, even if in future it is no longer with this site.

Rui was among the oldest moderators on the site and did not disserve to be thrown out over trivial yet correctable reasons after his years of dedicated service. Likewise I was one of the most promising and trustworthy moderators on this site with no major offense ever and did not disserve to be thrown out over reasons of lack of trust for something stupid.

Ralle, I hope you have made the right decision as you probably have lost two of the best moderators you will ever be able to find.

[aaron]

Alright... So supposedly, we are allowed to discuss what you wrote in this thread? You WON'T be banning us for stating our opinion? You won't be suppressing our free speech rights? Okay then, here goes...



Absolutely everything in here is wrong. I was in decent ties with Rui before he got banned, and I currently have his contact information, and I must say that either your information is wrong(won't surprise me; you're almost never here, you're always busy, you have no idea what's going on in your own site) or you are vastly exaggerating Rui's so-called 'rampage'. Rui globally ignored ONE user - Mr. Bob - For reasons he, as an admin, thought were correct at the time. Mr. Bob was obviously later unignored, and therefore the problem was resolved. And that's not even to mention that you, yourself, banned Mr. Bob just now - So how can you claim that Rui was detrimental to the community?
Rui never banned anyone, either; The four bans that are associated with him by the community were executed by Archian, not Rui.
As for the mods he demoted: azlier was doing nothing in his section. Nothing at all. His last post there was in 2011. BlinkBoy was simply inactive; He hasn't been seen for a while and didn't moderate anything either. I suppose that I can't give a valid reason for Pyramidhe@d's demoting, but that would be just ONE transgression in this so-called "rampage". I'll let you know, Ralle, that Rui is personally hurt by your actions against him. He considered the Hive a "second home", and he trusted and liked you. Your actions made him deeply confused and saddened. To quote him: "I feel miserable because my life feels like several books where things never get to be explained thoroughly and decently".




Don's case I think I should be able to defend much more easily. Don and I were talking to eachother as part of a gaming group on Skype for a year or so now, and I know him quite a bit. Don is a quiet guy who only talks when there really is a need to talk. He has never "trolled", and there is no proof of him trolling(if there is: please present it, both him and I would like to see it). As far as Don knows, he was reported maybe twice, and in both occasions, the situation happened years ago. It's true that he overreacted out of panic and frustration when you threatened him(yes, threatened, because he didn't do ANYTHING wrong before you suddenly brought up some old reports and whatnot against him and said you'll demote him), but you didn't give him neither a chance to calm down and explain himself, nor a chance to defend himself in any way at all. You just instantly demoted him, no questions asked, no investigation, no checking your own damn evidence. Don was an EXCELLENT model moderator, who was very active within his section, clearing out tons of pending models in a matter of minutes. He is a capable artist and he knows what he's doing. Demoting both him and anarchianbedlam leaves only Frankster alone to handle the model section; I'm not saying he's incapable of doing that, but I'm certain it'll be a bit harder for him now that there's no one around to help him handle the stress. If only you, Ralle, were more involved within your own damn site, if only you knew your members better, if only you knew what was going on, maybe then you would have been qualified to demote people for no reason. What makes a site good is it's community, not it's leadership.


It is true that maybe a year or two ago, anarchianbedlam may have stirred up some drama within(mainly) the chat, along with a few other members(myself included, as far as I remember). But recently? Recently anarchianbedlam has done nothing wrong. "Vulgar, inappropriate language" is part of the everyday norm here on the Hive: Maybe if you spent more time in the chat, you would know this. Yes, we, your community, use cuss words often. Yes, we insult eachother, both jokingly and seriously. Yes, even the new members and the 13-year-olds. No, it's NOT driving anyone out. The Hive was never a "family friendly" site - I don't suppose YOU envision it as the kind of site that 40 year old mothers and 10 year olds children visit to pass the time? I surely hope not, because if you do, something is fundamentally wrong with your understanding of things.


The chat is crucial for the current community to sustain itself. The 150-300 users who log in are 5-post people who only come here to post their ub3r 1337 h4x c00l narut0 bleach maps, or comment on models with such amazing constructive criticism as "Nice!" or "5\5". The core community are the people who frequent the chat and discuss stuff, as well as the older and more 'famous' members. Disabling the chat for no good reason(your reasoning is wrong, see commenters above) will only harm that core community, even more than you've already done by banning or demoting many of it's core members.


YES. It would've been a horribly boring community with little to no activity beyond "5\5! I like!" and "plz maek me narut0 modelz plz"(and the like). People come here not only to mod WC3, but also because they have friends and ties here. Friends and ties that you are actively breaking by banning members for no good reason.
And yes, I do believe you've been out of the loop for too long, and therefore your judgement is absolutely invalid. The drama only adds to the site, so long as everything remains friendly and reasonable. It fixes itself after a while, anyway, and no harm is usually done.


Oh, thank god, you finally realized that! You finally understood that you CAN'T put your friends and family into power! Wow, I was really worrying because of that Dark Wizard fellow being your friend and...


WHAT THE *BEEEEEEEP*. You JUST SAID that it's hard to put the site in priority over your friends... You JUST SAID that getting emotionally attached and putting friendships over the site is a big issue with your staff... YOU JUST SAID THAT. And besides, good personal friend = neutral third party? That doesn't compute well. AT ALL. Putting a friend of yours into position will screw the site over as you care more about your friendship and less about how many innocent people he is randomly banning.



Why, yes, yes, of course! I am certain that the ONLY reason people want Mr. Bob and other good folks unbanned is because of their amazing resources! Because other than making models, all Mr. Bob did was post porn in chat and troll other people like it was his God-sent duty.

I'm not going to bother much with this statement. Everything you just said is plain stupid. Mr. Bob didn't make models for years now. People liked him because he was a member of the core community. Because without him, the site and chat would be boring, and people would stop visiting. Because he is an interesting person and because he is fun to talk with. NOT because he made some "cool resources".
And ffs, Ralle, seriously? What makes you think Mr. Bob constantly "posted porn and harassed\trolled users"? Some 2009 reports? A member with 10 posts whining because Mr. Bob called him a noob?



Oh yeah? Because that worked so well for Rui, what with you un-deleting the thread he deleted with the reasoning of "Technically, everything on this site is my property". (Which is incorrect, btw: All .MDX, .BLP, .W3X and other Warcraft III and Starcraft II related formats legally belong to Blizzard. And I wasn't aware that posting text in a website turns the author's mental property into your own property?)



Self contradicting is great, isn't it? Did you re-remove Rui's thread to cover up for your mistake? Doesn't matter, though, since you and Vengeancekael seem to have moved most of Rui's work into your own thread anyhow. Severe ties with Rui I guess?


You PERMANENTLY banned people as soon as they brought up anything that was recently happening. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was a day, week or a few hours ban, but you PERMANENTLY, and I repeat, PERMANENTLY banned people for saying stuff like "What's going on with Rui? He was a good mod, why was he banned?". In one occasion, you even banned Joe-black-5 for doing his god-damn job. Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site, and Joe told him not to, because it is against the rules. The result? "SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT! PERMABANNED!". Your OWN. GOD-DAMN. RULES.



Then what IS the correct way of expressing our concerns about how much you're screwing up the site? That wasn't "spam", that was revolution, rebellion. They were telling you to stop before you made matters worse. By removing their threads and posts(there were many more that you did not bring up here) and banning them, you made matters WAY worse.


almost everything said here is completely biased. Things needed to be done to clean up the community. I've dealt with users like that before on an old site i used to run. Some people just don't seem to listen and banning is usually done as a last resort, ralle did not jump right to permanently banning people as his first option, he gave out many warnings to most of them and punished accordingly to their ill actions.

[map designer]

If I may question the decision of Rui's ban:
I bet the posts of both Ralle and Archian, in "http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/hive-218918/", were implying that Rui is good. This cannot go with his/her perma ban! I know that he was modifying some of his posts, but now that they were all tranferred to RalleTester (http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/ralletester/), I guess here the ban should end.

Please, do not say it is not to change. If it is wrong, then it has to change.

[Apheraz Lucent]

I'm completely positive about this situation.

For a lenghty amount of time, I warned that this is a must. People really do think that their resources/attitude gives them ability to neglect and step on some of the most important rules of our THW.

However, this was not the main issue. It's the fact that other users respect that type of behavior, and go along with it. This has drawn and encouraged even more of such people towards the destruction of entire community. I was away for some time, and when I got back, I had enough to see: the Hive has became a pithole for users neglecting the rules in any way possible. What's worse, the moderation crew seemed to got used to it, and mostly ignored such behavior. Only the most dramatic "cases" got some attention. I am not blaiming the staff, I'm blaming everyone for letting this happen.

It is a perfect time to get back to where we were once: a community, not a forest fire of hatred.
And for that, once again, I support this.

[DonDustin]

DonDustin: This moderator had been reported in the past and has been considered a troll in power, I had sent him a final warning giving him one more chance, on top of the chances I have given him in the past and asked him not to discuss private staff matters in the chat, shortly after receiving my warning, he proceeded to talk about exactly what I asked him not to do and got himself demoted.

first of all a quote from the thw rules:

"Identifying Trolling In Internet slang, a "troll" is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community forum, chat room, with the primary intent to provoke readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your expense. Trolls aspire to violence, to the level of trouble they can cause in an environment. They want it to kick off. They want to promote antipathetic emotions of disgust and outrage, which morbidly gives them a sense of pleasure.
Trolling are sometimes considered to be the same as flaming, but this may refer to the creation of any content that targets another person."


1. when did I ever troll?? show me evidence.
2. when did you ever have to give me these "chances" you are talking about?? I have just checked my inbox and my oldest pm is from 01-21-2010. Until 3 days ago I did not get any pm from you containing any kind of warning.
3. your so called warning (I'd rather call it accusation) did not contain any word about not being allowed to talk about that pm in the chat room.
let me qoute your pm once more:

"Hello DonDustin

I am contacting you today because over the time of your career on The Hive Workshop, you have been reported, for being rude/power abusing/not handling situations when you are supposed to and instead fueling the fire. This is partially my fault for always being busy but I am back now, and I expect you to behave in accordance with the rules, one more report and you will be demoted without warning but I do hope it won’t come to that because I believe in you.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle"

I don't think that I deserve it in any way after all these years that I worked for you as a models and packs mod.

As a note: if any of the other users here on THW have the impression that I trolled anybody over the years, please tell me, because I really want to know if I was such a bad member.

[The Dark Wizard]

Alright... So supposedly, we are allowed to discuss what you wrote in this thread? You WON'T be banning us for stating our opinion? You won't be suppressing our free speech rights? Okay then, here goes...



Absolutely everything in here is wrong. I was in decent ties with Rui before he got banned, and I currently have his contact information, and I must say that either your information is wrong(won't surprise me; you're almost never here, you're always busy, you have no idea what's going on in your own site) or you are vastly exaggerating Rui's so-called 'rampage'. Rui globally ignored ONE user - Mr. Bob - For reasons he, as an admin, thought were correct at the time. Mr. Bob was obviously later unignored, and therefore the problem was resolved. And that's not even to mention that you, yourself, banned Mr. Bob just now - So how can you claim that Rui was detrimental to the community?
Rui never banned anyone, either; The four bans that are associated with him by the community were executed by Archian, not Rui.
As for the mods he demoted: azlier was doing nothing in his section. Nothing at all. His last post there was in 2011. BlinkBoy was simply inactive; He hasn't been seen for a while and didn't moderate anything either. I suppose that I can't give a valid reason for Pyramidhe@d's demoting, but that would be just ONE transgression in this so-called "rampage". I'll let you know, Ralle, that Rui is personally hurt by your actions against him. He considered the Hive a "second home", and he trusted and liked you. Your actions made him deeply confused and saddened. To quote him: "I feel miserable because my life feels like several books where things never get to be explained thoroughly and decently".




Don's case I think I should be able to defend much more easily. Don and I were talking to eachother as part of a gaming group on Skype for a year or so now, and I know him quite a bit. Don is a quiet guy who only talks when there really is a need to talk. He has never "trolled", and there is no proof of him trolling(if there is: please present it, both him and I would like to see it). As far as Don knows, he was reported maybe twice, and in both occasions, the situation happened years ago. It's true that he overreacted out of panic and frustration when you threatened him(yes, threatened, because he didn't do ANYTHING wrong before you suddenly brought up some old reports and whatnot against him and said you'll demote him), but you didn't give him neither a chance to calm down and explain himself, nor a chance to defend himself in any way at all. You just instantly demoted him, no questions asked, no investigation, no checking your own damn evidence. Don was an EXCELLENT model moderator, who was very active within his section, clearing out tons of pending models in a matter of minutes. He is a capable artist and he knows what he's doing. Demoting both him and anarchianbedlam leaves only Frankster alone to handle the model section; I'm not saying he's incapable of doing that, but I'm certain it'll be a bit harder for him now that there's no one around to help him handle the stress. If only you, Ralle, were more involved within your own damn site, if only you knew your members better, if only you knew what was going on, maybe then you would have been qualified to demote people for no reason. What makes a site good is it's community, not it's leadership.


It is true that maybe a year or two ago, anarchianbedlam may have stirred up some drama within(mainly) the chat, along with a few other members(myself included, as far as I remember). But recently? Recently anarchianbedlam has done nothing wrong. "Vulgar, inappropriate language" is part of the everyday norm here on the Hive: Maybe if you spent more time in the chat, you would know this. Yes, we, your community, use cuss words often. Yes, we insult eachother, both jokingly and seriously. Yes, even the new members and the 13-year-olds. No, it's NOT driving anyone out. The Hive was never a "family friendly" site - I don't suppose YOU envision it as the kind of site that 40 year old mothers and 10 year olds children visit to pass the time? I surely hope not, because if you do, something is fundamentally wrong with your understanding of things.


The chat is crucial for the current community to sustain itself. The 150-300 users who log in are 5-post people who only come here to post their ub3r 1337 h4x c00l narut0 bleach maps, or comment on models with such amazing constructive criticism as "Nice!" or "5\5". The core community are the people who frequent the chat and discuss stuff, as well as the older and more 'famous' members. Disabling the chat for no good reason(your reasoning is wrong, see commenters above) will only harm that core community, even more than you've already done by banning or demoting many of it's core members.


YES. It would've been a horribly boring community with little to no activity beyond "5\5! I like!" and "plz maek me narut0 modelz plz"(and the like). People come here not only to mod WC3, but also because they have friends and ties here. Friends and ties that you are actively breaking by banning members for no good reason.
And yes, I do believe you've been out of the loop for too long, and therefore your judgement is absolutely invalid. The drama only adds to the site, so long as everything remains friendly and reasonable. It fixes itself after a while, anyway, and no harm is usually done.


Oh, thank god, you finally realized that! You finally understood that you CAN'T put your friends and family into power! Wow, I was really worrying because of that Dark Wizard fellow being your friend and...


WHAT THE *BEEEEEEEP*. You JUST SAID that it's hard to put the site in priority over your friends... You JUST SAID that getting emotionally attached and putting friendships over the site is a big issue with your staff... YOU JUST SAID THAT. And besides, good personal friend = neutral third party? That doesn't compute well. AT ALL. Putting a friend of yours into position will screw the site over as you care more about your friendship and less about how many innocent people he is randomly banning.



Why, yes, yes, of course! I am certain that the ONLY reason people want Mr. Bob and other good folks unbanned is because of their amazing resources! Because other than making models, all Mr. Bob did was post porn in chat and troll other people like it was his God-sent duty.

I'm not going to bother much with this statement. Everything you just said is plain stupid. Mr. Bob didn't make models for years now. People liked him because he was a member of the core community. Because without him, the site and chat would be boring, and people would stop visiting. Because he is an interesting person and because he is fun to talk with. NOT because he made some "cool resources".
And ffs, Ralle, seriously? What makes you think Mr. Bob constantly "posted porn and harassed\trolled users"? Some 2009 reports? A member with 10 posts whining because Mr. Bob called him a noob?



Oh yeah? Because that worked so well for Rui, what with you un-deleting the thread he deleted with the reasoning of "Technically, everything on this site is my property". (Which is incorrect, btw: All .MDX, .BLP, .W3X and other Warcraft III and Starcraft II related formats legally belong to Blizzard. And I wasn't aware that posting text in a website turns the author's mental property into your own property?)



Self contradicting is great, isn't it? Did you re-remove Rui's thread to cover up for your mistake? Doesn't matter, though, since you and Vengeancekael seem to have moved most of Rui's work into your own thread anyhow. Severe ties with Rui I guess?


You PERMANENTLY banned people as soon as they brought up anything that was recently happening. It wouldn't have been so bad if it was a day, week or a few hours ban, but you PERMANENTLY, and I repeat, PERMANENTLY banned people for saying stuff like "What's going on with Rui? He was a good mod, why was he banned?". In one occasion, you even banned Joe-black-5 for doing his god-damn job. Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site, and Joe told him not to, because it is against the rules. The result? "SHUT UP I DO WHAT I WANT! PERMABANNED!". Your OWN. GOD-DAMN. RULES.



Then what IS the correct way of expressing our concerns about how much you're screwing up the site? That wasn't "spam", that was revolution, rebellion. They were telling you to stop before you made matters worse. By removing their threads and posts(there were many more that you did not bring up here) and banning them, you made matters WAY worse.

My god, I'm going to be honest here you are so completely bias, all you complain about is how you think things should be done and how you feel, Ralle told you exactly how it is and how it is going to be.

[Devine]

IT'S ALL DEVINE'S FAULT

Sorry for getting you into this trouble, man. I didn't even realize it was this sensitive. Also, I know you don't blame me. The quote thingy is a joke.

[Kingz]

As i do not personally communicate with any of the banned persona's except DSG from time to time to ask for help i gotta bring something up:

You said you need a clear perspective on what is going here on the site and you bring a friend to moderate? I am sorry but all that is going to get is he saying yes to all your points and you saying yes to all his.
I just want more clarification about these 2 contradictive actions Oo

Also, i want to hear from TDW about the chat issue, i mean do you intend to handle all chat users like that?



I sure do hope this doesn't earn me a ban.

Edit:

Also i never met TDW so i have no bias towards him, but that chat picture didn't help at all.

[The Dark Wizard]

@TDW - I am not looking for your input. I am looking for Ralle's response, not yours.

I apologize but you will have to be content with me for the time being. I am now the official community moderator

You state that Ralle is out of his mind for bringing me here, I am the type of person that will call it as I see it, and he really needed that. I don't have a problem with being blunt and honest and I told Ralle what he had to do and and he and the staff remaining staff agreed.

[Deolrin]

I am now the official community moderator


...That's exactly my problem with you, Mr. 195 posts who never even visited or care about this site beyond buying it for whatever purpose.

You state that Ralle is out of his mind for bringing me here, I am the type of person that will call it as I see it, and he really needed that.

No, what we're bringing up is how Ralle wanted a clear and neutral perspective, and to that end, he brought YOU - His friend. Completely self-contradictory action.

[The Dark Wizard]

As i do not personally communicate with any of the banned persona's except DSG from time to time to ask for help i gotta bring something up:

You said you need a clear perspective on what is going here on the site and you bring a friend to moderate? I am sorry but all that is going to get is he saying yes to all your points and you saying yes to all his.

I just want more clarification about these 2 contradictive actions Oo

Also, i want to hear from TDW about the chat issue, i mean do you intend to handle all chat users like that?



I sure do hope this doesn't earn me a ban.

The reason why I'm here is because it does not matter how close of friends we are, I will always be honest and tell you when you are doing something wrong, I have a sense of justice and truth and my views were needed. I am the type of person who would always uphold rules, I believe in justice to the dot.

My title is not "Defender of Justice" for nothing.

As for the chat thing, Ralle answered most of that for me, he is tired of the drama on the chat, if it's disabled for a while it will allow us to recollect our thoughts and waste time moderating it, we are still reworking the staff and refilling the positions, that has constantly been interrupted for days because of the chat.


If you have any more questions please do let me know :)!

[Asomath]

Putting myself in Ralle’s shoes, trying to take the Hive in the direction he wants it to go, it’s the logical next move. The core community is very tumultuous right now. He needs to calm it down in order to prevent unnecessary fallout into the outer community, which is 90% of the site. If the “power struggle” so to speak within the inner community members continues on too long, it can end up ruining the general user experience, resulting in significantly less site traffic, and even worse, stunting the growth of the site. This way, although it’s an extremely “aggressive move”, it can effectively eliminate most of the inner-conflict and prevent it from ruining the user experience. Im not saying I personally agree with the hives direction, but with how Ralle wants to take it, the goal regarding the conflict is simple: The quicker it’s over, the better.

That doesn’t mean that a necessarily agree with a lot of these things. Deolrin's right in the fact that people DO change, the reports from years back shouldn’t have been taken in to account now. They were problems to deal with then. A stricter staff policy (or even a zero-tolerance staff policy if needed) probably should have been implemented more recently, and then the appropriate actions taken in shedding some of the staff.

But overall, my belief is that both sides are acting a bit to short-sighted in their objectives.

~Asomath

[Kingz]

As for the chat thing, Ralle answered most of that for me, he is tired of the drama on the chat, if it's disabled for a while it will allow us to recollect our thoughts and waste time moderating it, we are still reworking the staff and refilling the positions, that has constantly been interrupted for days because of the chat.


Your answer doesn't answer my question tho.

I didn't ask about Ralle, i asked about you.

Why did you act like that? As a person who rarely goes to the chat i would like to know going in there won't give me that kind of a treatment, or for that case, any other user.

[The Dark Wizard]

Your answer doesn't answer my question tho.

I didn't ask about Ralle, i asked about you.

Why did you act like that? As a person who rarely goes to the chat i would like to know going in there won't give me that kind of a treatment, or for that case, any other user.

I acted as I was ordered too. Ralle has stated that multiple times.

[I3lackDeath]

Your answer doesn't answer my question tho.

I didn't ask about Ralle, i asked about you.

Why did you act like that? As a person who rarely goes to the chat i would like to know going in there won't give me that kind of a treatment, or for that case, any other user.
If I may answer this one:
TDW pretty much acts as a robot, Ralle's "right arm", if you so will (and yes, that kicks out Archain in that regard).
He does not question his "superior", he acts strictly on his demands.
If Ralle tells him X has to be done, X will be done.
That's also what they expect from each and everyone of us now.
If you don't deal with it, you are no longer welcome.

[ndh]

I have a very simple question... will the models submitted by those who were banned still be available?

[Dr Super Good]

I would not mind having chat, just to see what everyone is up to. Atleast in a few weeks from now.

[The Dark Wizard]

I have a very simple question... will the models submitted by those who were banned still be available?

Only if those users still want it to be available, everyone who is banned or leaves has the right to take down their resources.

I would not mind having chat, just to see what everyone is up to. Atleast in a few weeks from now.

Chat will eventually be back!

[Devine]

I have a very simple question... will the models submitted by those who were banned still be available?

Probably. I don't think those banned will take their stuff offline. That'd be a pretty low blow. Not to mention that it'd be childish.

[Pharaoh_]

Even though I also seem to have some holes in my knowledge for certain things that happened recently or for behaviors that I was absent from the chat to judge, there are certain stuff that have a logical answer.

• "Your "Dark Wizard" was advertising his RP site"

Hiveworkshop is on the same server with RPDom; they are also affiliated (check bottom line of the affiliated sited in the end of this page), so it is not against the rules to post the link to it. It's like telling someone that posting TheHelper.net links is against the rules.

• The delayed bans

The reason why they weren't performed earlier is because enough evidence was required; this regards the "perma-banned" users. For the rest, they voluntarily resigned and it's understandable.

.....

You know what, I won't address specific points that I have an (or no) argument against. This feels like a civil war, but it's just a site for crying out loud. It may have shuttered our little worlds, but that's because we invested too much time in it. I don't even know how you let that go so easily. Storms have been present in many forums, this is a revamp of how things work; apparently, it had to be done with the painful way. If it's going to work, that remains to be seen, but it's too soon to tell.

Let's calm things down a bit, if everyone is asking for questions, new questions will emerge all the time. Your disappointment is imprinted on every sentence you type. No one forces anyone to stay or leave. It really is up to us to figure this out.

[RiotZ]

chat bans will most likely get overturned in the future if you have a light record or none at all

Oh god, I'm screwed. xD

Okay, now that I understand the reasons for everyone being demoted/banned... I can say with confidence... WHAT TOOK SO DAMN LONG? I complained for years about trolls on the staff... But ofc, I'm just a douchebag, biased by his own agenda. I really hate when people say this but, I told you so... And why is Frank still on the staff? He's the biggest power abuser on the site, no offense to him... But he'll probably ban me on a whim if he sees this post.

The site has been so weak against trolls, so I really have to stress, why permabans? Trolling has been 100% tolerated by veteran members since I joined the site, even I would partake on occasion. This is a huge policy change, I mean I got 6 months for a Nazi joke... How does a permanent banning suit the situation?

And to Pharoah_, your point is totally illegitimate, the majority of us just want to the see through the progression of the site. And to say, 'for those of you who don't like it, just leave', appalls me, the site would be nothing without the members, and nothing without the mods, you and the other moderators do not solely control the fate of the site, we are group share-holders per-say.

[Dr Super Good]

The reason why they weren't performed earlier is because enough evidence was required; this regards the "perma-banned" users. For the rest, they voluntarily resigned and it's understandable.
I was clearly fired though. Although I was expecting that since my entire credibility as a moderator was weighed with Rui since the previous fiasco so it is not really a surprise. It taking over a few hours did come as a surprise though since many of the staff were far too happy to get rid of me.

[Joe-black-5]

"Hiveworkshop is on the same server with RPDom; they are also affiliated (check bottom line of the affiliated sited in the end of this page), so it is not against the rules to post the link to it. It's like telling someone that posting TheHelper.net links is against the rules."
How the fuck should anyone else but the admins know that?
It's like Ralle giving me a grenade shaped like a ball and ordering me to play with it then hides in the next room and laughs when it explodes. Then suing me for destroying the ball and sending me bills while I am at the hospital and taking down my house.

Also Griffen was banned after mentioning the hack thing ;_;

[Kingz]

Hiveworkshop is on the same server with RPDom; they are also affiliated (check bottom line of the affiliated sited in the end of this page), so it is not against the rules to post the link to it. It's like telling someone that posting TheHelper.net links is against the rules.

This should have been the response from TDW then, not "shut up".

[Dr Super Good]

Awww but griffen said something nice about me. He never has said anything nice about me ever... Oh he was not Griffen, now I understand.

[The Dark Wizard]

This should have been the response from TDW then, not "shut up".

I never told anyone shut up.

[Joe-black-5]

This should have been the response from TDW then, not "shut up".
Amen to that brother

Edit:
I never told anyone shut up.
Must have been me telling myself to shutup. sorry

[Devine]

Awww but griffen said something nice about me. He never has said anything nice about me ever... Oh he was not Griffen, now I understand.
Haha. Takes me back to the days of Hivechan.
Striking how my youth here at THW is completely over.

[ndh]

Was so happy yesterday when i saw some models i hadn't seen in a long time back on the hive. When i went to look to see if they were still there, i couldn't find them. Then i tried to find out what happened... let's just say i ended up reading this post :/

[Pharaoh_]

And to Pharoah_, your point is totally illegitimate, the majority of us just want to the see through the progression of the site. And to say, 'for those of you who don't like it, just leave', appalls me, the site would be nothing without the members, and nothing without the mods, you and the other moderators do not solely control the fate of the site, we are group share-holders per-say.

Did I ever say that staff and users are not equal? Weren't I a user on my own? And let's be honest, I took no decision over this either, I am an observer as well. This is not DotA, where people suggest heroes and IceFrog might involve some of the suggestions in the map; this is a community where people join, if they like it and leave if they feel mistreated. One has the power to restructure anything, this is how hierarchy goes, if that didn't occur to you. And yes, this is a choice of our own, I don't see why you tend to only estimate one of the two options.

As for moderators, there are certain keywords that the applicant has to reply to: what moderator means and what a regular user means.

THIS is what I replied:

User The unit of a community; lots of them consist the community, a pattern of different personalities and interests. A healthy user's behavior assists in a healthy community.

Moderator Another unit of a community, that, apart from their duty to serve the rules of the site, they also have to manage forums and/or resources and make sure that everything flows right within.

I reaaaally don't think I ever mentioned inequalities among those two ranks.

[takakenji]

why is there even so much drama about this??? if you are bad moderator/admin/whatever you are demoted. okay, some people may or may not of been wrongfully demoted, why does it matter?? you wont get to spend your hours anymore to moderate a wc3 modding community???

and why is there so much hate against the dark wizard?? because nobody knew him? are you jelous this guy nobody knows is a community manager? or do you genuinly not like how he moderates?

honestly i see no point in this argueing. what are you trying to prove? you think argueing will get everyone unbanned? and their staff positions back?

[RiotZ]

Did I ever say that staff and users are not equal? Weren't I a user on my own? And let's be honest, I took no decision over this either, I am an observer as well. This is not DotA, where people suggest heroes and IceFrog might involve some of the suggestions in the map; this is a community where people join, if they like it and leave if they feel mistreated. One has the power to restructure anything, this is how hierarchy goes, if that didn't occur to you. And yes, this is a choice of our own, I don't see why you tend to only estimate one of the two options.

As for moderators, there are certain keywords that the applicant has to reply to: what moderator means and what a regular user means.

THIS is what I replied:



I reaaaally don't think I ever mentioned inequalities among those two ranks.

Your previous statement degraded the bulk of us, excluding these so-called 'trolls' who Ralle has snuffed out, to a group of whiny children who really have no control over what happens here, and if we feel displeased can leave, what if everyone who felt displeased left? Would there be any active members remaining? At the current time I think not.

I will quote you exactly.

Let's calm things down a bit, if everyone is asking for questions, new questions will emerge all the time. Your disappointment is imprinted on every sentence you type. No one forces anyone to stay or leave. It really is up to us to figure this out.

It is not up to 'us' the moderators, it is up to us, the community as a whole to figure this out.


____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________________

Yes Eimtor, let's give every person on the site the ability to ban people and delete thread, like they don't have agendas of their own, and before your next post, which will rephrase to something like this "I meant only select members can use these functions", yes we already have them, they're called moderators.

[Kingz]

It's not about anyone being hurt about a demotion/banning, it is about the reasons why it happened and by whose hand and if it was the right call.

[takakenji]

It's not about anyone being hurt about a demotion/banning, it is about the reasons why it happened and by whose hand and if it was the right call.

it seems a lot like it's about being hurt from demotion/banning


They hired what I called 'dogs' - ordinary members with ban functions since someone had to watch for troll posts and silly posts. Now that site is totally Elitist (like me) but it does make people not dare to troll or post stupid things.

sounds like torture

[Arcisal]

Just to let most of you guys know, ban or unban, this site still seems user-unfriendly.

[I3lackDeath]

why is there even so much drama about this??? if you are bad moderator/admin/whatever you are demoted. okay, some people may or may not of been wrongfully demoted, why does it matter?? you wont get to spend your hours anymore to moderate a wc3 modding community???

and why is there so much hate against the dark wizard?? because nobody knew him? are you jelous this guy nobody knows is a community manager? or do you genuinly not like how he moderates?

honestly i see no point in this argueing. what are you trying to prove? you think argueing will get everyone unbanned? and their staff positions back?
I would HIGHLY advise you to stop talking about stuff you have NO information about. You only end up looking like an idiot.

[The Dark Wizard]

Your previous statement degraded the bulk of us, excluding these so-called 'trolls' who Ralle has snuffed out, to a group of whiny children who really have no control over what happens here, and if we feel displeased can leave, what if everyone who felt displeased left? Would there be any active members remaining? At the current time I think not.

I will quote you exactly.



It is not up to 'us' the moderators, it is up to us, the community as a whole to figure this out.

Actually if you read the thread carefully Ralle said he does not care if people leave and the community shrinks, anything to make the site friendly/clean.

[takakenji]

I would HIGHLY advise you to stop talking about stuff you have NO information about. You only end up looking like an idiot.

i know everything there is to know, i've been reading through this whole thread, and following this drama. please point out where i've shown that i'm lacking in knowledge. yeah, i left out a few things, so what? they weren't crucial examples or did they hurt my case

[I3lackDeath]

Actually if you read the thread carefully Ralle said he does not care if people leave and the community shrinks, anything to make the site friendly/clean.
Has it ever crossed your mind that your site is useless without a community? Have you ever thought about the scenario of having no one left who's interested in this?

[The Dark Wizard]

I would HIGHLY advise you to stop talking about stuff you have NO information about. You only end up looking like an idiot.

Actually why don't you answer his question instead of calling him an idiot? His points are completely valid.

[Pharaoh_]

Your previous statement degraded the bulk of us, excluding these so-called 'trolls' who Ralle has snuffed out, to a group of whiny children who really have no control over what happens here, and if we feel displeased can leave, what if everyone who felt displeased left? Would there be any active members remaining? At the current time I think not.

I will quote you exactly.



It is not up to 'us' the moderators, it is up to us, the community as a whole to figure this out.

Again, by "us" I mean the community, I'm trying to make a point and you constantly ignore or misunderstand it. You are so passionate about this that you actually want me to say what 'side' I am on. If you indeed want to speak in terms of "community", then stop addressing "we" versus "you".

And if this is proved to be a bad restructuring, I already told you, "that remains to be seen".

[takakenji]

you still havn't answered my question blackdeath. since i'm so unknowledgable of the situation, enlighten me and tell me what i was wrong about.

[I3lackDeath]

Actually why don't you answer his question instead of calling him an idiot? His points are completely valid.
I can not answer his questions, because I'd have to reveal information that will get me banned, on YOUR rules (disclosing staff-intern buisness).

[takakenji]

I can not answer his questions, because I'd have to reveal information that will get me banned, on YOUR rules (disclosing staff-intern buisness).

then what's the point of having this a thread if you're going to ridicule me for things i can never find out? it might aswell be a staff only chat

[The Dark Wizard]

I can not answer his questions, because I'd have to reveal information that will get me banned, on YOUR rules (disclosing staff-intern buisness).

Actually this was his post.

Originally Posted by takakenji
why is there even so much drama about this??? if you are bad moderator/admin/whatever you are demoted. okay, some people may or may not of been wrongfully demoted, why does it matter?? you wont get to spend your hours anymore to moderate a wc3 modding community???

and why is there so much hate against the dark wizard?? because nobody knew him? are you jelous this guy nobody knows is a community manager? or do you genuinly not like how he moderates?

honestly i see no point in this argueing. what are you trying to prove? you think argueing will get everyone unbanned? and their staff positions back?

He wants to know A) Why do you care? B) Why do you hate The Dark Wizard C) He wants to know if you think arguing will get anything accomplished.


He did not ask for any sensitive information any more. How about you answer them for me if you won't for him?

[Kingz]

why is there even so much drama about this??? if you are bad moderator/admin/whatever you are demoted. okay, some people may or may not of been wrongfully demoted, why does it matter?? you wont get to spend your hours anymore to moderate a wc3 modding community???

and why is there so much hate against the dark wizard?? because nobody knew him? are you jelous this guy nobody knows is a community manager? or do you genuinly not like how he moderates?

honestly i see no point in this argueing. what are you trying to prove? you think argueing will get everyone unbanned? and their staff positions back?

1. There is drama because not everyone feels justice has been server, obviously.
2. It matters because of the way it was presented, giving years of your life to a community to get rid off in a such matter is not a nice way of handling anyone, be it friend or foe.

3. No one is hating Dark Wizard, we do not know him at all actually.
4. Why would anyone be jealous of a moderator? It only means they need to spend their free time on judging others, something which i do not wish to do anytime soon in my life.

5. We are having a discussion, not an argument. No one is calling out staff positions back but we are free to express our opinions.

You atitude is quite uneasy at a time like this, i may not have known much of the most of the banned persona's but i do know that this all went down fast and i do not like that at all.

[I3lackDeath]

Actually this was his post.

Originally Posted by takakenji
why is there even so much drama about this??? if you are bad moderator/admin/whatever you are demoted. okay, some people may or may not of been wrongfully demoted, why does it matter?? you wont get to spend your hours anymore to moderate a wc3 modding community???

and why is there so much hate against the dark wizard?? because nobody knew him? are you jelous this guy nobody knows is a community manager? or do you genuinly not like how he moderates?

honestly i see no point in this argueing. what are you trying to prove? you think argueing will get everyone unbanned? and their staff positions back?

He wants to know A) Why do you care? B) Why do you hate The Dark Wizard C) He wants to know if you think arguing will get anything accomplished.


He did not ask for any sensitive information any more. How about you answer them for me if you won't for him?
Do you REALLY want me to get going, telling them about what your definitions of "bad moderators/admins" ARE?

Do you REALLY want me to tell them why we seemingly "hate" you?

You might aswell take a step forward and tell them what your part in all of this was, what you did, what your orders were.

[ndh]

Perhaps all those whom disagree with Ralle's decision could set up a time and date to discuss it with him and get a better understanding as to why he did what he did?

Complaining about why something happened never helps, it ends up just making things worse by adding more drama. And yes, there are those among us that feed off of this kind of drama and for some reason enjoy continuing it.

What's done is done. If you are truly offended by what Ralle has done, then PM him with a respectful tone, not a demanding or sarcastic tone. Let's try to be civil people.

And before you start quoting pieces of this post, just think to yourself, are you quoting me because you agree, or are you quoting me because you feel like you need to put me in my place?

[The Dark Wizard]

Do you REALLY want me to get going, telling them about what your definitions of "bad moderators/admins" ARE?

Do you REALLY want me to tell them why we seemingly "hate" you?

You might aswell take a step forward and tell them what your part in all of this was, what you did, what your orders were.

I mean how many times must I tell you and everyone that Ralle brought me in to clean out the garbage? It's not a secret.

Ralle him self has said in the chat that we are spring cleaning. I mean what do you want me to say?

Want me to twirl my mustache and yell out my evil plan while I kidnap the princess and fly off on a dragon?

[M0rbid]

I mean how many times must I tell you and everyone that Ralle brought me in to clean out the garbage? It's not a secret.

Ralle him self has said in the chat that we are spring cleaning. I mean what do you want me to say?

Want me to twirl my mustache and yell out my evil plan why I kidnap the princess and fly off on a dragon?

You have a mustache? I find that detail particulary awesome.

I hope you got my tip about takakenji, right?

[RiotZ]

Has it ever crossed your mind that your site is useless without a community? Have you ever thought about the scenario of having no one left who's interested in this?

Though I disagree with all of your previous posts, and believe they are way too hostile... I second this comment.

Also, we know TDW very well, at least I do, his pandering to Ralle's intellectual desires has earned him a position of power (that's all I need to know), which makes him a biased player in this scenario, which is what Ralle says he was trying to avoid.

This is no personal attack on you TDW, but you are inexperienced, biased, and not cut out for this, the events to come are going to push you to the limit of irritation, and I doubt you can survive the onslaught of trolling that will assail you from all sides. Already you've told Joe to shut his mouth, I can only wonder with fervent curiosity what rage the staff with amass in the future... Not to single you out, 13LackDeath has exhibited the same behavior.

I think this thread should be closed immediately. It's getting out of hand.

[ndh]

The Dark Wizard, I mean you no disrespect, but by continuing to respond time and time again to those who are obviously looking for attention, you are only giving them a reason to continue posting.

[takakenji]

I am just helping our new Cummunity Mod, because as a user, with my experience, that is my job.

i hope you know this topic is strictly forbiding trolling so please scoot along or i will be forced to take reportative action on you

[DonDustin]

Perhaps all those whom disagree with Ralle's decision could set up a time and date to discuss it with him and get a better understanding as to why he did what he did?

I got chat banned, so I cannot meat with anybody to discuss it


What's done is done. If you are truly offended by what Ralle has done, then PM him with a respectful tone, not a demanding or sarcastic tone. Let's try to be civil people.
Personally I don't see why I should keep it private, because I have nothing to hide and there have been to many secrets recently anyways.

[M0rbid]

Actually I have a smooth face, but as an RPer I can have what ever I want!

Mwahahaha

So, as the Defender of Justice you have a mustache though?

[I3lackDeath]

I mean how many times must I tell you and everyone that Ralle brought me in to clean out the garbage? It's not a secret.

Ralle him self has said in the chat that we are spring cleaning. I mean what do you want me to say?

Want me to twirl my mustache and yell out my evil plan while I kidnap the princess and fly off on a dragon?
I quite frankly know what you are up to, "secretly" testing the left staff members, how far they will go for you, how "fit" they are for your "reconstruction".

If you already KNOW that you don't want me to be part of that "reconstruction" of yours (and by yours, I mean YOURS), why do you bother testing me, wanting to see me rage?

I simply told you that I can not answer takakenji's questions truthfully without revealing forbidden information.

[Kingz]

Personally I don't see why I should keep it private, because I have nothing to hide and there have been to many secrets recently anyways.

Agreed.

Also this is a forum, a place where you publicly discuss stuff, or else i have been lied to all these years.

[RiotZ]

Forbidden information... That sounds so lame. It's just a website... Ralle should just lift the veil, this ordeal is devious to the point of stupidity.

Ndh, stop pandering to the opinions of the moderators whom you don't even know, you're just trying to acquire a trust with them in the same manner TDW did.

Edit:

The problem is that there was no garbage to speak of in the first place. Everything was going just fine until you showed up.
One of you, either Ralle or TDW, is delusional, that's for sure. If you truly believe that the community is "full of evil flammers and trolls" and must be "purged", that is...

You're delusional if you believe that statement is false. 70% of the staff were and still are not fit for service, Rui, DSG, and M0rbid are excluded from this demographic I'd say.

[DonDustin]

I mean how many times must I tell you and everyone that Ralle brought me in to clean out the garbage? It's not a secret.

Ralle him self has said in the chat that we are spring cleaning. I mean what do you want me to say?

Want me to twirl my mustache and yell out my evil plan while I kidnap the princess and fly off on a dragon?

It was a complete secret to me that Ralle distrusted his staff so much that he needed to promote somebody to a chat mod, without even telling us anything about it. He would not have to give us a name, but at least the information, that he gave certain users chat mod powers, to get some more control into chat bussiness. When I got banned you even were like: "I have no idea what i am doing? How was I able to ban you??LOLOLOLLO" And instead of pming me to stop talking about it, you instantly banned me.

So tell me more about the defender of justice.

[takakenji]

the new world order is here at last after all my warnings

[RiotZ]

We all continue ranting aimlessly, like it will make any difference. Ralle is the head honcho, it doesn't matter what we do or say, there will be no difference of procedure, and he will continue to do what he deems best for the website...

We should all just give it a rest... Like Pharoah_ said, we are investing too much time into this, we all seem like a hapless bunch of nerds with nothing better to do, probably because we are.

[takakenji]

there is no wAy to fight the new world order. give in

[RiotZ]

The only solution to this problem is to permanently ban Dark Wizard. I see no other way. Otherwise the Hive will remain completely mod-less. Is that what you want to achieve, TDW? You want only you and Ralle to remain? Or is Ralle also just a puppet, waiting to be demoted?

Oh god, this place used to be so much fun... :(

You actually think Ralle would allow someone to use him? It won't be long before Ralle demotes TDW, and TDW becomes inactive, because he doesn't really care about the site, he's just here because Ralle needs him for the time being.

TDW is just a fad, he will fade away like all the other fads did...

But permaban him? Lol very laughable stuff Deo.

[Kingz]

Another demotion?

If this continues in this fashion you will be left without people able to moderate stuff, people able to contribute to the website and people at all.

I am not sure if i aprove of these methods, reconstruction is needed but this is more fit to a word called "destruction".

Demoting the last moderator of a section without naming a new one is quite questionable also.

Also why are actions taken before words?

[I3lackDeath]

Oh, I know that I won't be given explicit reasons.

Anyway, if this is the way you want it to be, and this is adressed to both YOU, TDW, AND Ralle, I will always question your decisions. There is still one contest going that I am responsible for, and as I said, the Icon section is without a moderator.
Enjoy might be an icon mod all along, but she has more important stuff to do, and I am SURE you won't make her do such a "lowly" job?

I think this is all a huge test... Ralle is picking out the appropriate successors according to their response to the situation, and demoting some on the same premise. I saw 13LackDeath's demote coming.
Of course they demoted me, because I question their authority and decisions. I told them that, yet they seemingly kept me. Ralle's "I hope your stay will be long" is rather ironical aswell, considering he only got to know me a few days ago.

[Kingz]

I think this is all a huge test... Ralle is picking out the appropriate successors according to their response to the situation, and demoting some on the same premise. I saw 13LackDeath's demote coming.

If it is, it is a cruel method of doing so, people who have been active and spent years helping this community do deserve better.

[RiotZ]

Oh, I know that I won't be given explicit reasons.

Anyway, if this is the way you want it to be, and this is adressed to both YOU, TDW, AND Ralle, I will always question your decisions. There is still one contest going that I am responsible for, and as I said, the Icon section is without a moderator.
Enjoy might be an icon mod all along, but she has more important stuff to do, and I am SURE you won't make her do such a "lowly" job?


Of course they demoted me, because I question their authority and decisions. I told them that, yet they seemingly kept me. Ralle's "I hope your stay will be long" is rather ironical aswell, considering he only got to know me a few days ago.

Not because you question their authority, because of the manner you do so.

[I3lackDeath]

Not because you question their authority, because of the manner you do so.
I find it irritating how rong you are. Believe what you want to believe.

[RiotZ]

I find it irritating how rong you are. Believe what you want to believe.

You're way too hostile to be a mod.

[Devine]

This has to stop though. Instead of restoring the harm you've done, you're actually making it worse by banning more capable mods for their social actions. I thought this whole thing served as a big spanking for the moderators that showed somewhat anti-social behaviour. But apparently, it's not. What the flying, family friendly fuck are you doing?
Capable moderators. That's what they were and let's face it they were unique. You need Dondustin, that iconmod, Joe and all of the others. Unless you're planning on moderating all of the sections by yourself. Again, what are you doing? Have you considered how permanent your thoughtless actions are? You can ask the mods to come back at some point (which I highly advise you to do) but they would be insulted.
INSULTED.
That's right, and with a good reason.
Face it, there are no good modelers left who are willing to test every model on the site.
Or at least not enough to purge all of those models while still having a life.

This site is all about productivity. How can there be productivity like this? This doesn't make any sense at all.
Don't be too rash in your actions TDW, that's all I'm saying.

[Kingz]

Not because you question their authority, because of the manner you do so.

The only real way to question anyone's authority is speaking directly to them and laying down facts and opinions.
If not for this way, then how?


You're way too hostile to be a mod.
I supose this may come out as me being biased but that was not a hostile reaction and you are my friend alone here in thinking that BlackDeath was ever a bad moderator.

Also being quite late i am off to sleep, i will continue to follow this thread and hopefully still be here to comment on the development of the situation.

[I3lackDeath]

You're way too hostile to be a mod.
Would you mind elaborating where I have been hostile?

I am a human being, there was much stored up already. If that is obvious sometimes, you may blame me.

I was a mod, but I am no robot. I served the community, I did my best to get the best out of each and every icon artist we currently have.
That was my motivation, and it will remain that way.

[The Dark Wizard]

This has to stop though. Instead of restoring the harm you've done, you're actually making it worse by banning more capable mods for their social actions. I thought this whole thing served as a big spanking for the moderators that showed somewhat anti-social behaviour. But apparently, it's not. What the flying, family friendly fuck are you doing?
Capable moderators. That's what they were and let's face it they were unique. You need Dondustin, that iconmod, Joe and all of the others. Unless you're planning on moderating all of the sections by yourself. Again, what are you doing? Have you considered how permanent your thoughtless actions are? You can ask the mods to come back at some point (which I highly advise you to do) but they would be insulted.
INSULTED.
That's right, and with a good reason.
Face it, there are no good modelers left who are willing to test every model on the site.
Or at least not enough to purge all of those models while still having a life.

This site is all about productivity. How can there be productivity like this? This doesn't make any sense at all.
Don't be too rash in your actions TDW, that's all I'm saying.

I'm only doing what I am supposed too, we will be done restructuring the staff soon and making a new announcement introducing all the new staff members.

[DonDustin]

are we allowed to suggest users for our old sections?

[The Dark Wizard]

are we allowed to suggest users for our old sections?

Yes, please post that in admin contact. It will be taken into consideration.

[Devine]

I'm only doing what I am supposed too, we will be done restructuring the staff soon and making a new announcement introducing all the new staff members.

Reconstructing with what exactly?
We once were a near professional site for resources.
We had the best resources and the best only. We had high standards.
You're not going to tell me some nitwit is going to take over modeling, just because the former, very capable moderator said a few bad words millions of years ago?

Be reasonable. Reason with Ralle. Just don't fuck this place up. I spent my childhood here, man. Don't let it go to shit. Stall the downfall a bit so we can caress the memories, man. Really.

Yes I realize how sentimental this sounds. I had a good time here and seeing it go down like this... can't help but feeling bad about it.

[Misha]

I doubt this could work, could it, Cummunity Mod?

Maybe Riot knows it though, as he showed some true insight.

don't get banned M0rbid.. you still need to tweak that newest texture of mine.. not to sound like a slave-driver, but i really cannot fix it, i have no pixeling skills :| i pretty much need you (if i haven't mixed people up..)

and about this thread, i have no comment about it.. and you Dwiz.. let's see how you'll tend to the things here.. i don't really have that high opinion of you. but then again, i'm not that normal guy either :b

[M0rbid]

don't get banned M0rbid.. you still need to tweak that newest texture of mine.. not to sound like a slave-driver, but i really cannot fix it, i have no pixeling skills :| i pretty much need you (if i haven't mixed people up..)

Me and TDW are all cool, I actually suggested him to use this shorter nick yesterday.

(sry, that I put my name first)

I might join his RP site, but I guess that's to far off topic.

[Klayton]

As a relatively new member and this not directly affecting me in anyway, I don't completely understand why things are the way they are here. But, I do understand somethings. There are some members abusing power, while there were others that weren't doing that at all, some just said what they felt about the situation and were punished for it, others however, created entire threads making it out to be as if the Hive is a fantasy land ruled by a tyrannical king. I for one, agree with both sides, though some of the wrong people were placed in power others that were right for it, were removed for merely saying what they felt about the situation. I as a person who provides resources for this site have wanted to be a moderator but, to tell you the truth, I'd hate to be one for this site now. I mean you let it go into complete chaos and did nothing about it, you put people in power who I am sure; were notorious for the things that they just got punished for, and now when the actual good staff members state what they feel about the scenario they are punished for that. I am sorry but, if you keep going in the direction you are, The Hive will fall apart. A word of advice to those who are defending themselves, this is the last post I will make on this site, I'm leaving it. If I were you, I'd do the same. Save yourselves the grief there are other sites out there.

[Misha]

Me and TDW are all cool, I actually suggested him to use this shorter nick yesterday.

(sry, that I put my name first)

I might join his RP site, but I guess that's to far off topic.
I did a few RPs on Dwiz's previous sites and they were nice.. minus this or that.
As a relatively new member and this not directly affecting me in anyway, I don't completely understand why things are the way they are here. But, I do understand somethings. There are some members abusing power, while there were others that weren't doing that at all, some just said what they felt about the situation and were punished for it, others however, created entire threads making it out to be as if the Hive is a fantasy land ruled by a tyrannical king. I for one, agree with both sides, though some of the wrong people were placed in power others that were right for it, were removed for merely saying what they felt about the situation. I as a person who provides resources for this site have wanted to be a moderator but, to tell you the truth, I'd hate to be one for this site now. I mean you let it go into complete chaos and did nothing about it, you put people in power who I am sure; were notorious for the things that they just got punished for, and now when the actual good staff members state what they feel about the scenario they are punished for that. I am sorry but, if you keep going in the direction you are, The Hive will fall apart. A word of advice to those who are defending themselves, this is the last post I will make on this site, I'm leaving it. If I were you, I'd do the same. Save yourselves the grief there are other sites out there.

everyone is free to leave, but you miss the big picture by a long shot.. this thing had to be done, hive was a stagnant pool with people just jerking off instead wanting to like.. collaborate on cool models like one guy i used to, or still know, depending on his activity atm :b
perhaps i do act like a slave driver sometimes, but some were even worse

and about moderator position.. i was never given a chance to try :P but would still like to.. i've been moderating a group on a deviant art site,, re-arranging the art into right folders, resolving stuff, removing offending art or members.. and it works as a peaceful little community... but heck, what do i know, i'm known like an annoying member.. anyway, this was pretty offtopic so i close my post now :P

[ndh]

Ndh, stop pandering to the opinions of the moderators whom you don't even know, you're just trying to acquire a trust with them in the same manner TDW did.

This comment was not needed, just because i have the same attitude towards something does not mean i am "kissing up to the boss". By making this statement you have proved to me that you are one of the people who enjoy the drama and love to quote anything and everyone to get your point across or to continue the drama. And what's wrong with having a sense of trust with Ralle and the moderators? As far as i can tell that is a good thing.

And before you quote me to complain/troll again, think about how ignorant it makes you look to others.

[RiotZ]

This comment was not needed, just because i have the same attitude towards something does not mean i am "kissing up to the boss". By making this statement you have proved to me that you are one of the people who enjoy the drama and love to quote anything and everyone to get your point across or to continue the drama. And what's wrong with having a sense of trust with Ralle and the moderators? As far as i can tell that is a good thing.

And before you quote me to complain/troll again, think about how ignorant it makes you look to others.

I don't see how acknowledgement makes me ignorant, quite the contrary actually.

[The Dark Wizard]

Alright ladies and gentlemen.

Me and Pharaoh had to clean out this thread a bit and issue out temp bans. Please try to keep it civil or this thread will be closed.

[Vermillion Edict]

Honestly, this is a good change, and it's got me really considering becoming active again. The trolls have finally been dealt with, and this place is improving daily because of it.

[Pyramidhe@d]

all right. so. it's pretty ok that anarchian and sham has been accused of whatever they've been accused with. i was kind of expecting to find my name there somewhere as well. i guess i can see where you are possibly coming from.

but DonDustin?
DonDustin. a troll.
"DonDustin was a troll in power." take a deep breath and repeat that to yourself. that is a phrase that in my entire time on hive that i never thought i would ever see. in form.

now.

reported in the past
can you elaborate that a little. i asked you to elaborate what exact reports i had. you never replied. but surely. so here is my question.

what are the details behind reports concerning DonDustin?

[The Dark Wizard]

all right. so. it's pretty ok that anarchian and sham has been accused of whatever they've been accused with. i was kind of expecting to find my name there somewhere as well. i guess i can see where you are possibly coming from.

but DonDustin?
DonDustin. a troll.
"DonDustin was a troll in power." take a deep breath and repeat that to yourself. that is a phrase that in my entire time on hive that i never thought i would ever see. in form.

now.


can you elaborate that a little. i asked you to elaborate what exact reports i had. you never replied. but surely. so here is my question.

what are the details behind reports concerning DonDustin?

You are not DonDustin, Ralle has released the information he has wanted and anything else has been privately discussed with the users in question.

[I3lackDeath]

Pyra, you will not get your desired answers. It's the way it is. Pure politics, there are thousands of ways to avoid answering questions.

[takakenji]

why was dsg demoted? lol

[Pyramidhe@d]

ok then.

answer me this

"I am contacting you today because over the time of your career on The Hive Workshop, you have been reported, for being rude/power abusing/not handling situations when you are supposed to and instead fueling the fire. This is partially my fault for always being busy but I am back now, and I expect you to behave in accordance with the rules, one more report and you will be demoted without warning but I do hope it won’t come to that because I believe in you."

that pm. i received as well.

am i to presume that every single mod, active or inactive, "bad" or "good" received it? it is a simple YES/NO question. dont need to give me excuse. just YES or NO. very simple

i have like one more question but lets take this slow and calmly, one by one

[GhostThruster]

Who is the dark wizard?

[The Dark Wizard]

ok then.

answer me this

"I am contacting you today because over the time of your career on The Hive Workshop, you have been reported, for being rude/power abusing/not handling situations when you are supposed to and instead fueling the fire. This is partially my fault for always being busy but I am back now, and I expect you to behave in accordance with the rules, one more report and you will be demoted without warning but I do hope it won’t come to that because I believe in you."

that pm. i received as well.

am i to presume that every single mod, active or inactive, "bad" or "good" received it? it is a simple YES/NO question. dont need to give me excuse. just YES or NO. very simple

I'm sorry but what Ralle has released is what people are going to get.

Who is the dark wizard?

Hello!
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/latest-updates-news-101/moving-forward-218976/

[takakenji]

i warned you all/ the new world order is here. you cast me aside and called me a troll, and did not listen to my warnings or prepAre , and now the reckoning has come

[Vermillion Edict]

Get out.

[takakenji]

Get out.

we dont need more people gone the nwo has already divided us

[Magtheridon96]

Damn it.
This thread is getting too long for me to read.
I already finished reading the first two pages.
I give up.

Have we discussed anything new yet? Or are we still asking the same old questions?

This is getting old.
Let's just move on.

DSG was demoted. So what? He's still a member of this site and he's still able to contribute to it.
It's not the silly "Moderator" tag under your avatar that makes you a contributer to this community, it's what you do. And Dr Super Good has done a lot for this site.

DonDustin was also demoted. Why should this be important?
The only difference between a moderator and a user on this site is that the moderator has to actually make what the user's opinions official concerning a certain resource (well, the veterans' opinions anyway).
That's just about it. Only half the moderators actually get chat powers.

It shouldn't be the 'moderator' tag that motivates someone to actually want to do something for the site and the community.

As for shamanyouranus, well, I guess this is something for him to be ashamed of, I mean, he was just promoted nearly a month ago :|

[Dentothor]

Hey guys! I'm back! What did I miss?

...Ah.

[chr2]

This is getting out of hand. You wish to stop trolling? This is about the same as USA declaring war on terrorism. You simply can't do anything. See if you can find any website with more than 3 people on it, where trolling isn't happening. I assure, you can't. I'm not saying trolling isn't bad, but attempting to prevent it is meaningless (takakenji is a perfect example of this. He has just returned from his ban, and already he is trolling). People also tend to have fun with it, and if it gets out of hand (if any individual is suffering from it), simply have a moderator step in.

Now, about the big fuss with The Dark Wizard. The problem is that people don't know him. He is not part of the community. How do you expect someone to be a community moderator, when he isn't even a part of the community he is going to moderate. I understand that a few do actually people know him, but it is obvious that the majority does not. And having him serve as your secret spy certainly isn't helping, and only prevents him from ever joining the community. He is like the Stasi during the seperation of Germany, mistrusted by all.

@ndh, I like you and all, but I really think you should take into consideration how much knowledge you have on this subject. Sure you've read the previous discussions and whatnot, but seeing as you joined Hive April this year, you have a fundamental lack of knowledge on the background of said threads. I'm not saying this should prevent you from sharing your opinions, I'm just advising you to think twice of how much you actually know about what you're posting.

EDIT: I almost forgot the most important thing. If you really want to prevent people from being butthurt, throw a huge "13+ to enter"/"site may contain harsh language"/whatever thingy before going to the site. Most, if not all of the core members are over 13, and foul language is slowly integrating into our society anyways. I'll say what so many others have said: Hive isn't a family friendly site. You said you didn't mind a smaller community. Then why let the members who are actually contributing to the site suffer, instead of the "children", whom you are obviously trying to protect with these new rules, who don't get shit done anyways (yes, I realize I am generalising here, but I honestly believe that these are, more or less, the two poles of Hive).

[Skycraft]

It does seem rather silly to promote someone to Community Moderator when nobody knows anything about him at all. How can someone become a Community Moderator if they don't know the people?

[The Dark Wizard]

It does seem rather silly to promote someone to Community Moderator when nobody knows anything about him at all, that's not to say he would be bad at it - in fact what I am stating is that if you want a good Community Moderator get one from the Community and not one of your friends whom we don't know.

That's all I've got to say on this.

But there is so much to discuss in this thread, yet you just single the point about me?

[mckill2009]

what a post!, I only read a few coz Im too lazy to read that :P...

Anyway the key for NOT to get banned is very simple, RESPECT PEOPLE and do not post innapropriate
stuffs like sex, posting a resource that's not yours, advertising to get money, offer money etc...

IDK why people have a hard time to know how to do that, afterall this is a WC3 gaming
community and I'm only here for fun coz I like WC3, if I have friends coz of this then thank you!...

EDIT:
if you are offended to a user then report to the admin with evidence, simple eh?

[Skycraft]

But there is so much to discuss in this thread, yet you just single the point about me?

Because I can see everything else clearly and I'm completely neutral towards all of it. The only thing I don't like is promoting someone to Community Moderator when he himself isn't known and doesn't know the community.

[HeroSlayer]

It is good that you do this, those elitist users should have been removed long ago :)

[Vermillion Edict]

But there is so much to discuss in this thread, yet you just single the point about me?

The news here involves you. Everything else, like the bans and demotions, were a long time coming, for the most part.

I, for one, have been waiting patiently to see Bedlam removed from the staff. Trolls do nothing good for sites like this.

[map designer]

Its funny that I, when I first saw* this thread, I read the title "Zone of Tolerance"... I was so optimistic that I thought there everything will change as the "Beloved Community members" would like...

[M0rbid]

It's kind of astonishing that now that this many established users left or were left all those users come out of the bushes that never made it into the community and never archieved anything remarkable here because they never got things together.
I think this is a great archievement of the new changes and we should be grateful for this because it will CERTAINLY increase the Hive's quality.

Also, due to natural selection of those users who do not scrutinise the new path, it will be way easier to create a new friendly community, because all those others certainly cause damage.
I can see this clearly being portraied in this thread.

[Red]

There's a lot I could say, but because I don't even understand any of this nonsense, let alone support it, I don't see much point taking the time to pen out some big spiel - I'll just keep this short. It'll probably be deleted anyway.

To any lurkers or less-active community members that are just here to enjoy quality resources: My heart goes out to any of you reading this, because you're the ones who are affected most by this.

With that being said, all of my Icons, Skins, Models, and all 150+ .bmp Pooo comics have been deleted, and will not return. I wish you guys the best, but I'm not the type to stick around when me and my friends are regarded as little more than elitist trash.

Take it away, Roy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S73UR_nUUI&feature=related

[VeljkoM]

I am probably wrong but isn't requirement for moderator a bit higher then his level of fame? If Ralle promoted TDW he maybe just maybe he actually had a perfectly valid reason? Tats being said best is just wait and see how it turns out and then judge.

As for recent changes well I was out of loop but I am sure that changes were needed. For me at least Hive seemed little stagnated anyway, and very very dramatic for a simple site. This is all just personal view and not at all necessarily correct, its just an opinion.

[Kingz]

It is good that you do this, those elitist users should have been removed long ago :)

Yes i can clearly see how this fine member of our community with 0 contributions so far, yet blaming those who contributed so much that i cannot grasp the future of hive without these members.

If you are the next generation of what this community is going to be, i will gladly leave.


I have witnessed moderator purges before... but never so extreme.

To all those saying HIVE is stagnating of late, you do know this might as well end THW as we know it? Stagnation and stability is sometimes better than such drastic changes.

[Wolfe]

It's a little coincidental that all of these old users who have been inactive for long periods of time are suddenly returning during this dark time.

Hm, I wonder.

[Kingz]

It's a little coincidental that all of these old users who have been inactive for long periods of time are suddenly returning during this dark time.

Hm, I wonder.

Desparate times call for desparate measures?

Anyhow one thing is for sure, THW isn't going to recover from this damage in a long time. We lost a huge number of good people who i never saw acting out like it was mentioned here.

The real infection of this community is still here, and they aren't the mentioned personas.

[GhostThruster]

What is this 'real infection'?

[Alagremm]

I think it's about time serious measures were taken about some things. Even though it may seem harsh, I agree with Ralle.

Still, it's sad that people are deleting their resources to protest. I think they should have more respect for their own creations.

[Kingz]

What is this 'real infection'?

The members of our community who wish not discuss this pressing matter or other for that instance, not even a word, the ones who cover behind in fear or feel not the need to share their opinion.
Either you care so little about the community that you won't help it improve or you are too scared for yourself and again won't help the community.

The members who suck up to moderators when they need them and act out when they don't.
The real trolls who hide behind their word plays, provoke others and do not contribute at all.


Being a part of a community means being there when you need it and when it needs you, not only the first part.
Let's be honest the only reason these people got punished is because they were under the spotlight, other people who do deserve more punishment are getting looked over because of this.


Still, it's sad that people are deleting their resources to protest. I think they should have more respect for their own creations.

After contributing so much and then getting this treatment, i would have acted the very same.

[trolman]

So you are going to violate our rights and severly punish us with unfairly cruel punishments just because your right hand decayed and you had to cut it? Your idea is to kill half of the already dying popylation inorder to survive ? Seriously Ralle? I mean its good that you finaly decided to keep an eye on your rouge admins but why is it our fault we got courrupted by their lawbreaking!?

[Pyramidhe@d]

i deleted all my models. and it was no joy. i loved every single one of my models like they were my own children.

but i dont think leaving your children to stay with your ex-boss is a good idea.
it's the principle of things, really.

[Latecat]

I am mostly neutral towards this situation, but like so many others, I also removed everything I deemed to be valuable to me.

I will be around, most likely in the chat, but for the time being, I am also leaving/packing, because I no longer have more than what, 3-4 people who I'd actually NEED.


My signature pretty much says how I feel about the hive atm.

[Ironside]

Funny how I didn't manage to see any of these 4 threads until now that a member told me about them.

[Arcisal]

It's a little coincidental that all of these old users who have been inactive for long periods of time are suddenly returning during this dark time.

Hm, I wonder.

The Messiah(s) have returned to save us!

[map designer]

Ralle! WE HUNGER FOR THE HIDDEN TRUTH! We want to know the crimes of these corrupted admins/mods. Shall we do what to reveal it? shall we do what...

[Fussiler1]

Was Deolrin banned because you deemed his post to be offensive? I guess it's slightly offensive, but honestly, this could've been much more easily solved if you responded. Now you're saying a lot of things that people don't recognize or agree with, and instead of seizing the chance and clarifying everything more by responding to Deolrin's post, countering his points, you ban him for offensive behaviour. I guess it was slightly offensive, but still, not offensive enough for a ban, in my opinion.

You could've done the same with the posts posted in all those links. Going in discussion eases the situation more than banning.

Ah well. Life goes on.

[Kingz]

I would like to discuss a thing that has been brought to my attention (and do note i did not ask it to be brought up in case you plan on banning me for some consipracy or whatever).
It seems our PM's aren't private at all and are being looked at.


I ask for an answer from TDW.

[Wolfe]

I would also like an answer regarding the above issue. This has also been brought to my attention.

[sonofjay]

Was Deolrin banned because you deemed his post to be offensive? I guess it's slightly offensive, but honestly, this could've been much more easily solved if you responded. Now you're saying a lot of things that people don't recognize or agree with, and instead of seizing the chance and clarifying everything more by responding to Deolrin's post, countering his points, you ban him for offensive behaviour. I guess it was slightly offensive, but still, not offensive enough for a ban, in my opinion.

You could've done the same with the posts posted in all those links. Going in discussion eases the situation more than banning.

Ah well. Life goes on.


I totally agree on this guy.

[Skycraft]

Looking at PM's is an invasion of privacy and it's nobody else's business but between the sender and the receiver(s). I'd like an explanation on this too.

[Kingz]

@TDW

Being a community moderator, shouldn't you be responding to this thread? Wasn't that the main point of this? Since atm i can see you reading the thread but not commenting anything.

[trolman]

Phahah really now they are stalking our pms? What is this the CIA? Are we all potentional terrorists?

[Kingz]

Seeing as the messages are marked "private" and no one does have the right to invade our privacy here afaik it is illegal to even do so not to mention unethical.

[The Dark Wizard]

I would like to discuss a thing that has been brought to my attention (and do note i did not ask it to be brought up in case you plan on banning me for some consipracy or whatever).
It seems our PM's aren't private at all and are being looked at.


I ask for an answer from TDW.

I completely agree.

May I ask what you mean? I am not aware of any situation with the PM system, I mean I can't answer something if I don't know about it. Do you have any proof or anything?

[Kingz]

I would like to see RALLE here before i post my proof as it would be a shame to get instabanned and all trace of me vanish because i did so.

[Ralle]

I am here. I am not aware of any breaches into the PM system. Please tell me what you're talking about and I will look into it.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle

[Alagremm]

See? Everything is fine, no reason to be (overly) paranoid.

[Kingz]

Quoting a PM i recently got from a member i will not name:

I must expose to you some rather disturbing facts about THW's new "community" moderator.

I'll skip the really old part, when he banned whole staff from TFGORP (The final gathering of roleplayers), which was later remade into Player-HQ, then into Player Heaven, and then the same ban spree and banning all members who ask about the bans, the site died out in a month. He is also known to have literary destroyed WC3 clans with bot accounts.

Now in the recent past, he tried to buy off "Coloholics" site, probably the biggest roleplaying forum. As soon as he was given the Co owner premissions, he banned TFE, the legitimate owner of the site and most of his staff, under excuse that TFE had a "Black Ops" team of hackers, who hack stuff *rolleyes*.

He also tried to sell his vBulletin licence on an auction, only to sell it to someone else while the auction was still active, leaving the winner emptyhanded.

I was also told that he literally scammed few people for large amounts of money, the amount and the purposes of it are unknown to me, though Orc knows more.


Coloholics was just one of his targets, but it was unsuccessful. Though most of the "merges" were successful, like with Kathoran.freeforums.org.

It was a SC2 roleplaying site, with about 2000 members and about 1 tenth of those were active. Dwiz promised the owner the "Administrator" position and his moderators their own moderator positions on waywardinn. No one from kathoran is on staff and the kathoran forum is gone.

Next victim, was some "exalted" forum, (exalted is some kind of a roleplay, im not really sure). He bought the site some time ago, only to merge it with waywardinn recently.
there was about 700 waywardinn (wayward inn was a general roleplaying site) members, comparing to 10.000+ from exalted, the conflicts of the site's focus were obvious and still ongoing, though Dwiz and his lapdogs are doing their best to hide all mentions about it. The waywardinn was renamed to "rpdom" to bury the dirty past and make a "new site identity".
http://www.rpdom.com

Now, why am I sending you this? Because THW and WC3 were some of my favourite activities back in the day when I was active, I do not know if Ralle has gone completely mad or if he is just desperate, but teaming up with Dark Wizard will surely be the downfall of this site.
Chat was disabled because Ralle's little lapdog can't be there 24/7 banning people.
Not to mention the fact that he is openly advertising his site, while he bans every member of the site listed bellow.

You may forward this message to others if you wish, but you risk getting banned, though I guess it doesn't matter all that much now.

DO NOT BOTHER REPLYING, THIS ACCOUNT WILL SOON BE BANNED, BECAUSE OUR LITTLE "COMMUNITY" MODERATOR IS STALKING YOUR INBOXES.

Talk about "Private" messages, huh?

If you really need to discuss this issue without fear of getting banned or censored, you can do it here: link removed.

Also:

http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/14/46/31/08/untitl36.jpg

NOTE THE COMMENT IN THE PICTURE, PM.

[Steel_Stallion]

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/pop%20corn/grand/jackson_popcorn_gif.gif




http://i46.servimg.com/u/f46/14/46/31/08/untitl36.jpg

NOTE THE COMMENT IN THE PICTURE, PM.


Ever occur to you that someone received his PM and reported it to Ralle?

[jondrean]

I think Hive as wc3 community, not as forum, even though I use the forum section, I still would use it if there would be only tutorials, because when I started a search for wc3 related web page I only expected to find some tutorials.

[Kingz]

Ever occur to you that someone received his PM and reported it to Ralle?

I doubt that PM would have been sent to a person he doesn't trust.
Also i did talk to Velm, he is sure it was a breach on his PM.

[trolman]

Everyone who criticizes the goverment gets silanced, enjoy your totalitarian regime.

[Pyramidhe@d]

woah.
and here i was, trying to reach you frantically on skype for the last half hour

[Steel_Stallion]

the dark wizard is a roleplayer?

I think I griefed you once with narks, hahahhahahha good times.

[GhostThruster]

Where did the wizard kid go?

EDIT: TRIPLE POST AT ONCE!

[Kingz]

It is normal admins to have access to PMs of their own forum because imagine someone did something illegal and criminal? Of course these are extreme cases and as little as they have occurred on the internet, that's when such final measure has to exist. Other than cases of invetigation I do not think PMs are looked at/should be looked at.

Yes, hardcore criminals gather here at THW to discuss illegal things.
We are all terrorists for that matter.

[sonofjay]

This is just unbelievable, I'll just pull back on my other site if things continue to be like this, and auctioning the site?

[Kingz]

That's the meaning of 'owner', dude. If they want to they can look at the PMs as well. But if one doesn't post any conspiracies in PMs, one doesn't have to worry about anything and one's PMs will become boring to look at =)

NO. HELL NO.

The moment you label something PRIVATE, it stays like that for good. If not he should have changed the Private Messaging to Messaging only.

Invasion of privacy is an illegal act, only the goverment may invade your privacy if it has reasons to belive you are doing something illegal.

You seem not to grasp the meaning of private. If the pm's aren't private i say remove them, i will talk to the other guy via MSN which i know isn't monitored then.

[Arcisal]

Funny how chat was closed and now this thread is having new posts faster than chat itself.

[Kingz]

Why is there no response then?
I submitted evidence that suggests foul play, shouldn't ralle be here telling us it's all lies then?

The absence of answers only can lead to actually this issue being true.

[sonofjay]

@kingz, totally agree with you.

This post rampage will be paused after 5 mins. Trust me.

[Kingz]

In case something happens during the database backup....

Remember all the things i mentioned.

[Wolfe]

In case something happens during the database backup....

Remember all the things i mentioned.

You survived!

[Kingz]

I think you guys became too harsh with Ralle. Give him some time, he will make this place better, all the hatred will be gone and the site will continue to live as it has always been. It is now having a hard times but it will be all gone, just needs a little time.

We are asking questions to which we are getting no answers my friend, i am not attacking ralle.

Also we are free to take our stand here and make a point, why is this silence going on? The more time passes the more people leave and more secrets get revealed. Why is there no response from Ralle or TDW?

Edit:

Pyramidheads post removed?

[Wolfe]

I think you guys became too harsh with Ralle. Give him some time, he will make this place better, all the hatred will be gone and the site will continue to live as it has always been. It is now having a hard times but it will be all gone, just needs a little time.

It isn't really a matter of harshness. A serious allegation has been made regarding our privacy on this site. As users and contributors, we deserve answers to these allegations.

I couldn't care less about everything else, but if my privacy is being compromised, then I (and perhaps others) may be forced to leave.

[Ralle]

That post is completely irrelevant with the topic at hand, and I will not be allowing users to post that here in this thread, however if you want more information on that please PM The Dark Wizard, he is willing to answer any questions anyone has in private, so this thread does not get cluttered with off-topic stuff. However I can say this much at least: Most of that is inaccurate and the truth while it is there it was warped, for example; Velm says that he banned everyone from TFGoRP, however the way it actually happened was, an administrator named Orc deleted the site. The reason why Velm was banned is because someone reported it in admin contact, it is not a secret that everything on this site or anysite in the world is stored in a database a server, that includes PMs.
I don't read through PMs but If I have a block of text I can input it into the database and it will find out who posted it, this is useful in being able to handle reported PMs because else we would not be able to do that. But enough of that, try to stay on topic ladies and gentlemen.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle

[mckill2009]

let's give TDW a chance shall we?, even though he is not so polular(?) like some of you,
maybe he's capable of handling things around here better than (youus?), so enough war already and let's move on!

[M0rbid]

let's give TDW a chance shall we?, even though he is not so polular(?) like some of you,
maybe he's capable of handling things around here better than (you?), so enough war already and let's move on!

Yeah, he proved it already.

[Kingz]

Questioning the integrity of a new administrator is well within the topic of this thread, and the my post did just that.


And i am sorry but i literally got 4 warnings about this new moderator in 1 hour and how he is unfit to be an admin. How am i to feel safe or to know my privacy won't be violated by him if i do not question his actions to prove my opinion wrong?

This is my favorite community, i would hate to see it fall apart.

[Arcisal]

Instead of dodging questions or leaving it unanswered, could we all get an explanation here? From Ralle or TDW?

If answers are what culls the riot, then give them (or us) answers.

[The Dark Wizard]

Instead of dodging questions or leaving it unanswered, could we all get an explanation here? From Ralle or TDW?

If answers are what culls the riot, then give them (or us) answers.

Ralle said that I would answer them in PMs, my personal life is no one's public business, regardless of how warped that person made it out to be.

[kanodoom]

I don't what to say this, but i have download anarchianbedlam's and DonDustin's models in this site, so, are they demoted or they permanently banned?

[mckill2009]

yeah better to put it in public not private :P...

[M0rbid]

Why was Pyramidhe@d banned?

Could you give a reason?

[Arcisal]

Pyramid was spamming quite some stuff. He was trying to make a point "crudely", so I guess (?) it is sort of "acceptable" since Zero Tolerance is in action [(?) again].

Kingz, on the other hand, was not saying things uselessly, he was presenting a case maturely. If they ban him, it'll be proof that free-speech in the Hive is all but a faded memory.

[sonofjay]

This banning is crazy, why don't you guys just ban all the users?

[The Dark Wizard]

Why was Pyramidhe@d banned?

Could you give a reason?

He has been asked multiple times to tone down his aggressiveness and has refused to cooperate.

We asked users kindly to keep this thread civil.

[Kingz]

My posts are getting deleted.
It seems having an opinion does result in banning nowadays.

I will quote my deleted post:

"Once a person's personal life impacts the life of many other, it becomes public business."

I stand by this and any sane person knows this.

[map designer]

Ralle said that I would answer them in PMs, my personal life is no one's public business, regardless of how warped that person made it out to be.

ahhh what shall I say. I have sent you PM, regarding one question I already posted in this thread. I have recieved no reply yet...

and the most important thing: the point of this thread is that we find the answers, and yet many questions in the previous pages. Some posts that contain very important question even got deleted.

You are permitted to discuss anything you want here in regards to these topics

The point of this thread is yet to be fulfilled, and the goal is yet to be moved to.

[M0rbid]

He has been asked multiple times to tone down his aggressiveness and has refused to cooperate.

We asked users kindly to keep this thread civil.

Never heard of censorship being civil.
Did I miss anything?

[Arcisal]

One entire page of posts deleted.

[Magtheridon96]

I would like to discuss a thing that has been brought to my attention (and do note i did not ask it to be brought up in case you plan on banning me for some consipracy or whatever).
It seems our PM's aren't private at all and are being looked at.


I ask for an answer from TDW.

Of course they are!
Everything, and I mean everything that is stored on this site can be accessed by Ralle because .. they're right there. On his Disk. He can look at anything.
Even posts have a changelog.
Resources have changelogs as well.

As for private chats, well they might be logged.
Admins can tell when you're having private chats. (It's obvious because it's in the Chat's source. How could anyone have missed that?)

[Kingz]

Of course they are!
Everything, and I mean everything that is stored on this site can be accessed by Ralle because .. they're right there. On his Disk. He can look at anything.
Even posts have a changelog.
Resources have changelogs as well.

As for private chats, well they might be logged.
Admins can tell when you're having private chats. (It's obvious because it's in the Chat's source. How could anyone have missed that?)

Well duh, i know how it works.
One thing is knowing you have all those messages logged and saved, other thing is when you start reading them and invading privacy.

I am not making accusations towards Ralle, just to be clear. This is just an statement.

Update:

Trolman banned.

Update2:

Two more members banned, posts deleted.

[Devine]

That post is completely irrelevant with the topic at hand, and I will not be allowing users to post that here in this thread, however if you want more information on that please PM The Dark Wizard, he is willing to answer any questions anyone has in private, so this thread does not get cluttered with off-topic stuff. However I can say this much at least: Most of that is inaccurate and the truth while it is there it was warped, for example; Velm says that he banned everyone from TFGoRP, however the way it actually happened was, an administrator named Orc deleted the site. The reason why Velm was banned is because someone reported it in admin contact, it is not a secret that everything on this site or anysite in the world is stored in a database a server, that includes PMs.
I don't read through PMs but If I have a block of text I can input it into the database and it will find out who posted it, this is useful in being able to handle reported PMs because else we would not be able to do that. But enough of that, try to stay on topic ladies and gentlemen.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle

That is not true. Orc only deleted the site long after the event, I'd assume.
I recall being banned from his forum, being a Global moderator and like second in command. At least 10 other members got banned that day, moderators and normal members. The site only had like 20 active members.
The site died and got deleted afterwards.

Honestly, why don't you take this all back? Soon enough, you won't even have a community to come back to. : /

[Kingz]

Sad thing is that instead of speaking to us, our community moderator is deleting posts.

This is not a proper way to handle this situation, it's like throwing gasoline on a fire instead of throwing water.

Speak to us.

[Arcisal]

Asked him some questions. Up to you guys if you want to believe him or not.

Just PM him.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/3274/answersfromtdw.jpg

[map designer]

Questions are waiting in a queue. They must be answered one by one...including those deleted of BlackDeath and Pyra

[sonofjay]

Its still not too late to redeem what you lost, but if you don't act the right way now, you'll lose everything you have.

And while typing that, there is something that went to my mind. With all this stuff etc etc. maybe Ralle was intentionally doing this with some unknown reasons.

[DarkKnight]

PSS: You are permitted to discuss anything you want here in regards to these topics, mourn what has happened, be thankful, or just express your opinion, but the moment you go off topic it will be deleted. If it happens to be offensive, it will be treated in accordance with the Zero Tolerance policy.

Not saying I agree, just saying that this is the case, so you people dont rage for the wrong reasons =3.

Though a bit more clarity on what the topic is exactly, and what isnt would be nice, for quite a lot of people have a different view on that from you.

[Kingz]

Due to my real life issues i will have to take a break from this thread during the next few hours.

I do have the intention to find out the answers to our question and i will be posting back later on about these issues.
For now do try to keep the responses up and i will try to find more facts and evidences to back up my opinions and statements on this matter.


Ralle and TDW, i hope you find time to answer our posts instead of simply deleting them.

Regards.

[Ralle]

It seems that this thread was unable to remain open after all, due to the fact that users cannot be civilized. Most of you spoke as if you had not read the thread and acted like you had a chance to change my mind. I will repeat my self once more and I will be blunt about it since my words in the first post seem to have been ignored. If you don't agree with anything happening, then please leave, I don't want you here if you are just going to protest and complain about things that have to be done for the site's sake. Zero Tolerance is still in effect and in an effort to show you that you are not welcomed here if you are a trouble maker or don't agree with what we are doing, we will continue to ban users that are caught breaking the Zero Tolerance policy. Seriously there are other sites on the internet, people have moved on and joined other forums, made their own, etc.
If you feel that you have to delete your resources when you leave that is also fine, but no decision of mine will be reversed regardless of what happens, I will be seeing this through to the end and I would like to thank everyone who has been with me uptill now and will continue to be with me in the future.

~Keep on Mooseing,
Ralle