Insanity Attack v4.5

[blancfaye7]

> Upgrade thing
+15 as and 7% ms seems reasonable.

I just changed the MS upgrade to a constant of 15 per research. The bug lies within the Movement Speed (%) upgrade.

EDIT: Balancing more enemies will be my lat objective for this version (v3.0) I'm wrapping up things. Once I'm done, I'll upload the version 3.0

 

[Mammamia]

* Boss with death coils causes lags. The while one.

> I just changed the MS upgrade to a constant of 15 per research. The bug lies within the Movement Speed (%) upgrade.

Interesting.

Updated post 40

 

[Mammamia]

New record: reduced Chen's life to 10k out of 13k.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map updated to v3.0. Check the details for info (mainly changelogs only anyway)

Dang i think you should make another post for new suggestions. I completely missed all of those.

16.05
* Power plant's tooltip states that in can repair multiple mechanical UNITS, but in reality it AoE regenerates HP to buildings, while repairs only ONE.
* Lit scout beacon consumes 10 gold and lumber per 3 secons instead of listed 1.
* Military artifacts replenish time needs reworking.
>-(rt- replenish time)
>- + - Faster
>- - - Slower
Corrupt orb - fine.
Lifesteal - extremely situational, but useful. -25% rt
Crits - Joke item for the cost. (+4%dps for 450g!?)
Stun - good-ish item for late game marines. Almost no other unit can benefit from it (6-12 units with this can be effective against boss, but no guarantees)
+5 def costs like a unit, but gives almost nothing. Faster replenish and lower cost if it was intended for melee units)
+15 dmg is fine, but needs faster repl. x3 or x4
+15 AS is fine, but needs faster repl. x3 or x4
Bottle? somewhat ineffective, because units can't swap items.
Boots? IDK. Never felt the need for them.

Machinery items need to be tested. only three things I found of use:
blink on the taunt golem
+15 dmg on buggies
+1k hp for buggies.
Troll's cloack. installed into buggies and towers could surround bosses for further beatdown))
mid-lategame 25 dmg/sec immolation?
Suicide? - Time and money down the drain. +units scaling is far superior.
3 sec invul with 120 sec cd? What for? spell dodging?
3 hp regen... powerplant + 1k hp + some micro is far superior. 6-7 with 650 cost sounds more attractive.

I already said my side on Power Plant. I also have fixed the tooltip on Scout Beacon at v3.0.
I lost track after that and just read them today...

Anyways, all of these can be updated quickly to 3.0a.
These items exist for PvP use as well. My other testers have been pumping the map with PvP without PvE anymore, so your suggestions play very well for PvE side. In PvP For example, the suicide is for breaching other player's walls. faster Movement speed than your opponent's can make retreating easier, or they can reach the tower at range quickly. the 3 second cooldown can be of good use along with suicidal tanks to beatdown other enemy player's walls.
I'll take a look at the list and decide though.

** Add (Y) hotkey to Destroy. Unlikely to be clicked randomly.

I won't. Accidents would still happen. I want the player to think still when going through the destroy button by hovering.
I wanted to change it's position because it's very accident prone on the very first box (lol ._.) but other players say I shouldn't anymore.

** Sorcs appear without activated slow autocast
** Bank spell X should be 1000 instead of 100

Fixed.

17.06
** Map description in loading screen: "Survive the insaniest onslaught" would sound better.

I already made the line catchy in my place. I can't change it anymore lol.

*** - Suggetions
*** Rework the Chen battle.
1. Give her -30% ms & as "Goddess descend" aura with 2600 radius for firs 25 seconds. Ascend of the goddess shouldn't be unnoticed.
2. Split her buff in two separate abilities: I. "Holy shock" +200% dmg, 25 armor II. "Second wind" +25% DMG, 500 ARMOR.
When she engages in combat - use firs one. She should wreck faces, but player must have a feeling that she is beatable. When her HP drops to 40% - she uses second one and spreads havoc in the military lines.
3. That evasion should also scale corresponding to HP lost.
100% HP - 60 eva
70 - 80
40 - 90
20 - 95

Righ now it feels like she has 99% evasion.

Good guess! She has a 99% evasion!
She is actually beatable. I just want the players to discover how. I won't give any clues about that now... *insert evil giggle here*

 

[Mammamia]

Thanks for fast reaction on suggestions ^_^

> Dang i think you should make another post for new suggestions. I completely missed all of those.

Ok)

> Accidents could still happen.
Yes, they could, but it's highly unlikely because main control keys are QWER line based.
Unless managing the control groups it's almost never to be clicked accidentally, but even then, people who play at least 6-10 times will get accustomed to it.
Having it on a hotkey is way more convenient then not.

> I already made the line catchy in my place. I can't change it anymore lol.
Yes, it is catchy, but it just doesn't sound right). Just give it a try

> She is actually beatable. I just want the players to discover how. I won't give any clues about that now... *insert evil giggle here*

Yes. I have a pretty good idea about how to do it.
When you engage her in combat the first thing comes to mind is "WTF is going on here?" and keeps frustrating you for the whole period of "battle". More like Benny Hill, when she runs rampant in your base, while your army tries to keep up with her.

My suggestion was about changing the feel and the flow of the battle from "WOW! She twoshots walls and units, but she is killable." to "She runs around like crazy with tons of armor nuking everything down HEALING in the meantime!" and finally to 99% eva threshold "WTF can I do to her!?!?"

This would be a good touch to the map. If you want her to be beaten in only one way that you thought of - then increase her HP, so when the last phase starts she would have 8k left or so. (this values are valid for Normal mode)

In Easy mode she is perfectly beatable with troops rightclick.

BTW, is C4 has piercing damage type?

 

[Mammamia]

* Opened Imbued gate do not count as a proper requirement to advanced hall.

* disable in the center portal trigger once worker got there.

** Convenience measure: Make machinery artifacts castable on workers, so they can be installed within the certain range using inventory hotkeys. When worker unit acquires machine artifact it is replaced with worker version. Of course 11 artifacts should be doubled in editor as worker version.
(You can decline this idea, but it would be cool to see and use)

** Increase the range on shops to 400-450 because managing army in a confined space is quite a trick.

Eidt:
** Make Main worker a forever lvl 1 HERO UNIT. Nothing else to be changed. Idea behind it is the ability to always keep tabs on his HP and be able to access him via F1. In PVP this is most useful because he has the highest kill priority, while also most vulnerable unit in the whole game. There is no way to hide him in BUNKER, for example, so 4 gyrocopters or artillery cars with invis will surely kill him in a no time.

* Oh yes, Invis. Units become visible if attack or detected. Wait, what? DETECTED? What dark magic or trickery can detect them in the entire game?) 2-4 invis buggies can block the enemy worker, so other units would clean him up.

* Since Scout beacon has such a big appetite you might as well give it a true sight in a smaller radius. Let's say 900.

* Golem's taunt ability should have lower cooldown, since he is a one trick pony anyway.


** "Map reveal" spell for the first three seconds reveals map and for the remaining two shows position of units. So what is the point?

** Map informativeness. Right now it carries from little to no useful information. Yes, you can see the positions of allies, but that's it. Other dots is just a complete mess that gives almost no information.
Mark bombers, turtles and other non-standard wave monsters with another color.
Custom hero icon like circle with X inside for bosses. In the current state of affairs when Chen with her sidekicks descends she rapes your army and you can't even track where are they.

** Placement of the spawned trees is a very crucial part of the game, because if you can't find a wide enough space in time - the whole stratagy is literally screwed. Either generate them right at the start or add 5-7 second of free time to look around the map before choosing the game mode. This way people will have a moment to decide where they want to build and inform others with a ping.

** Add main worker to selection on spawn, because you still want camera to be in the same sweet spot you found pre game ^_^

*** - other stuff
*** Decorating the map is a different matter, but still needed, because the prettier it looks - the better the chance that people will remain engaged. It's been a long time since I played the WC3 "Iceborn" campaign, but the vision of those beautiful sceneries keep reemerging in my head again, and again and again.
It doesn't have to be the first priority, but at least something to catch an eye would be nice.

 

[blancfaye7]

** Convenience measure: Make machinery artifacts castable on workers, so they can be installed within the certain range using inventory hotkeys. When worker unit acquires machine artifact it is replaced with worker version. Of course 11 artifacts should be doubled in editor as worker version.
(You can decline this idea, but it would be cool to see and use)

I don't know what you mean and what it is achieved from here. Do you mean it gets the nearest mechanical unit? If that was the case it could cause problems since Towers can be installed with these too.

* Opened Imbued gate do not count as a proper requirement to advanced hall.

I will change the requirements of the Hall. I remember Gates when opened and closed are replaced; thus the "tree that connects where the wall came from on previous upgrades" are lost.

Is C4 piercing?

No. It's Pure. Thanks for pointing out though. I have not implemented the PvP damage type.

Yes. I have a pretty good idea about how to do it.
When you engage her in combat the first thing comes to mind is "WTF is going on here?" and keeps frustrating you for the whole period of "battle". More like Benny Hill, when she runs rampant in your base, while your army tries to keep up with her.

My suggestion was about changing the feel and the flow of the battle from "WOW! She twoshots walls and units, but she is killable." to "She runs around like crazy with tons of armor nuking everything down HEALING in the meantime!" and finally to 99% eva threshold "WTF can I do to her!?!?"

This would be a good touch to the map. If you want her to be beaten in only one way that you thought of - then increase her HP, so when the last phase starts she would have 8k left or so. (this values are valid for Normal mode)

In Easy mode she is perfectly beatable with troops rightclick.

Let me see... I still want the users to retain that feeling of having a terrified presence on the field. I also want the PvP'rs to collaborate using this theme.
I'll see what I can do, but probably I won't change how she acts because I have already forgotten most dependencies.
I still think that Easy Mode should remain that way, but there is something in me that I want her to become as you said. We'll see.

> Accidents could still happen.
Yes, they could, but it's highly unlikely because main control keys are QWER line based.
Unless managing the control groups it's almost never to be clicked accidentally, but even then, people who play at least 6-10 times will get accustomed to it.
Having it on a hotkey is way more convenient then not.

Added. Used the "L" hotkey instead.

+5 def costs like a unit, but gives almost nothing. Faster replenish and lower cost if it was intended for melee units)

+5 armor is something not to be looked down on. It is stackable as well.

I also updated some items.

 

[Mammamia]

> I don't know what you mean and what it is achieved from here. Do you mean it gets the nearest mechanical unit?
I meant that worker could cast this artifact as a targeted spell on a desired mechanical unit instead of moving it from one inventory slot to another. This action would remove item from worker's inventory and give it to the unit. This could be handy in a couple of situations like in the heat of the battle when you have only hand full of tanks, you could cast Stun hammer and then in 0.5 stconds install the blink and use it, when moving it takes about 2.5-3 seconds. Surrounding high priority targets LikeAPro would be much easier. Since it is not only a PVE, but also a PVP - this little time saver can be crucial from tactiacal point of view.

> No. It's Pure. Thanks for pointing out though. I have not implemented the PvP damage type.
Right now 120 armor and 7,5k HP golem that uses C4 deals 280 dmg to another golem. 120 arm = 90% phis resist. With a a simple math:
280/10*100 = 2800 (full damage caused by explosion if unit had no armor)
2800/7500 = ~0.36 (this is a damage multiplier for piercing attacks vs hero armor... unless you changed the default values, of course )

> +5 armor is something not to be looked down on. It is stackable as well.
Ok, let's run some numbers. Armor upgrade lvl 5+ gives everything one needs in terms of survivability.
70*5*5/2 = 875g for 25+ armor and 25% hp for the whole army.
Only bludgeon units may benefit from +15 armor artifacts could give them, BUT who will use them in the firs place? Swordsman's damage scales way better with speed upgrade, while their inherit armor scaling covers 30-50% difference in HP. Since there are few to none nukes (damaging spells), the effective HP (EHP) vs phisical is almost identical.
Casters you say? Well, if they come to the brunt of attack you are either missmicroed or screwed anyway)

> Added. Used the "L" hotkey instead.
Good. But try "J" insted. When fingers lie on QWER it is within the thumb's reach.
When I design hotkeys for further use I look from ergonomic point of view. If person has to use awkward shapes or look for it every time - then it is just a little better then having no shortcut at all. They called shortcuts for a reason))

If you need some real references then compare Starcraft 1 to his older brother Starcraft 2. Building a pylon shortcut: (I) B P. (II) B E. While P is more intuitive, E is far more convenient to use. If one takes into account that your map is fairly high paced then ease of control should be obvious priority.

Updated post 55

 

[blancfaye7]

> I don't know what you mean and what it is achieved from here. Do you mean it gets the nearest mechanical unit?
I meant that worker could cast this artifact as a targeted spell on a desired mechanical unit instead of moving it from one inventory slot to another. This action would remove item from worker's inventory and give it to the unit. This could be handy in a couple of situations like in the heat of the battle when you have only hand full of tanks, you could cast Stun hammer and then in 0.5 stconds install the blink and use it, when moving it takes about 2.5-3 seconds. Surrounding high priority targets LikeAPro would be much easier. Since it is not only a PVE, but also a PVP - this little time saver can be crucial from tactiacal point of view.

> No. It's Pure. Thanks for pointing out though. I have not implemented the PvP damage type.
Right now 120 armor and 7,5k HP golem that uses C4 deals 280 dmg to another golem. 120 arm = 90% phis resist. With a a simple math:
280/10*100 = 2800 (full damage caused by explosion if unit had no armor)
2800/7500 = ~0.36 (this is a damage multiplier for piercing attacks vs hero armor... unless you changed the default values, of course )

> +5 armor is something not to be looked down on. It is stackable as well.
Ok, let's run some numbers. Armor upgrade lvl 5+ gives everything one needs in terms of survivability.
70*5*5/2 = 875g for 25+ armor and 25% hp for the whole army.
Only bludgeon units may benefit from +15 armor artifacts could give them, BUT who will use them in the firs place? Swordsman's damage scales way better with speed upgrade, while their inherit armor scaling covers 30-50% difference in HP. Since there are few to none nukes (damaging spells), the effective HP (EHP) vs phisical is almost identical.
Casters you say? Well, if they come to the brunt of attack you are either missmicroed or screwed anyway)

> Added. Used the "L" hotkey instead.
Good. But try "J" insted. When fingers lie on QWER it is within the thumb's reach.
When I design hotkeys for further use I look from ergonomic point of view. If person has to use awkward shapes or look for it every time - then it is just a little better then having no shortcut at all. They called shortcuts for a reason))

If you need some real references then compare Starcraft 1 to his older brother Starcraft 2. Building a pylon shortcut: (I) B P. (II) B E. While P is more intuitive, E is far more convenient to use. If one takes into account that your map is fairly high paced then ease of control should be obvious priority.

Updated post 55

1. I'd say no to this. Installation is a process anyway and I want it this way. I want them to actually "give the item to the mechanical unit", literally in-game. Even if it's for convenience; I want the installation process to be rather "tiring".

2. Let me check, I may have misunderstood these words called Damage Type and Attack Type.

3. I'd say that the numbers here have an effect, but only a part of it. I've done some math before but it's still all about the situation and position. If a tactic needs breaching through the base, you'll need armor. I decreased the armor to 5 from 10 because the item became op. after some tests the people I have tested with suggested this number. I argued the same concept of math, but it's still all about the experience of how it is used, they said. I can't decline because these people knows best than me (I'm a noob gamer).
I might by then decrease the cost of armor items/reincrease slightly, because i kinda agree with you, but I want to also trust the explanations of these other testers, and others have already agreed upon the decision.

4. We, the people here, have petite hands.... lol. We can only reach G. Decided L because it's far and we usually move our hands through the keyboard fast then return. The middle finger usually lands on L.

** Make Main worker a forever lvl 1 HERO UNIT. Nothing else to be changed. Idea behind it is the ability to always keep tabs on his HP and be able to access him via F1. In PVP this is most usefull because he has the highest kill priority, while also most vulnerable unit in the whole game. There is no way to hide him in BUNKER, for example, so 4 gyrocopters or artilery cars with invis will surely kill him in a no time.

* Oh yes, Invis. Units become visible if attack or detected. Wait, what? DETECTED? What dark magic or trickery can detect them in the entire game?) 2-4 invis buggyies can block the enemy worker, so other units would clean him up.

* Since Scout beacon has such a big appetite you might as well give it a truesight in a smaller radius. Let's say 900.

* Goolem's taunt ability should have lower cooldown, since he is a one trick pony anyway.

1. I'll think about this. Making the builder a hero will destroy AI priorities. Hero + Worker will increase malice, and thus can be abused negatively. Hero and Worker classifications don't have an equal malice as well.

2. I am already switching to this idea, I'm going to add true sight on some things, OR I can just lower the Invi duration. I personally don't want to add true sight in the game.

3. Golem? Let me check that out. I thought I have edited that.

---2nd edit---

 

[Mammamia]

Updated post 55. 16:40 http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2685221-post55.html
Note, that I will make another post similar to 55 on the next page, but until then I will be posting update message with time stamp on top of my last message.

4. That is my point exactly. As a middle-of-a-pack gamer and fellow developer I can state that the less you need to move around to do stuff - the better it is.

> Making the builder a hero will destroy AI priorities.

You can take another way around: For each player in the game create a dummy hero outside of the visible part of the map, so when it is selected (f1) - select main worker unit for the player.

> +5 def. other testers have already agreed upon the decision.

Need a wider sample size to make right judgment.

> 2. I am already switching to this idea, I'm going to add true sight on some things, OR I can just lower the Invi duration. I personally don't want to add true sight in the game.

It is understandable. Shota with spirit link+heals is a hard one to crack if your army consist of unit with slow projectile speed such as buggy, locomotive, hell, even every non-rapid shot tower, but even then mobs keep swarming you over.

> 1. I want the installation process to be rather "tiring".
I would object to that. In SC1 Zerg's main production building - the hatchery- had only one rally point, so when workers morphed they would all gather in one point withe the army. In WC3 they made rally point smarter, so if pointed on the mine/tree trained worker would automatically start harvesting. Then Came SC2 with major upgrade for Zerg - Hatch had two different rally points - one for workers and another one for military units.
In SC2 right at the start of the game player should have manually select all workers and sent them each to different mineral patch to maximize the mining efficiency.
With new Hart of the Swarm patch came out the gameplay was a little bit simplified. Workers would automatically start harvesting minerals at the start of the game. Many argued that it wasn't the right desigion, but after the initial storm weathered almost no one objected against it anymore.

Just to put things in perspective: The youngest SC1 world champion was 14 years old, while in SC2 closer to 16.

Conclusion: Simplifying the micromanagement and mechanical part, you, as a developer, open up more time for strategical thinking. With this in mind take a good thought on this matter.

Your PvP part of the map is quite unique in a way that you also need do think about PvE part as well. I think it hase quite a potential.

 

[blancfaye7]

4. That is my point exactly. As a middle-of-a-pack gamer and fellow developer I can state that the less you need to move around to do stuff - the better it is.

> Making the builder a hero will destroy AI priorities.

You can take another way around: For each player in the game create a dummy hero outside of the visible part of the map, so when it is selected (f1) - select main worker unit for the player.

> 2. I am already switching to this idea, I'm going to add true sight on some things, OR I can just lower the Invi duration. I personally don't want to add true sight in the game.

It is understandable. Shota with spirit link+heals is a hard one to crack if your army consist of unit with slow projectile speed such as buggy, locomotive, hell, even every non-rapid shot tower, but even then mobs keep swarming you over.

> 1. I want the installation process to be rather "tiring".
I would object to that. In SC1 Zerg's main production building - the hatchery- had only one rally point, so when workers morphed they would all gather in one point withe the army. In WC3 they made rally point smarter, so if pointed on the mine/tree trained worker would automatically start harvesting. Then Came SC2 with major upgrade for Zerg - Hatch had two different rally points - one for workers and another one for military units.
In SC2 right at the start of the game player should have manually select all workers and sent them each to different mineral patch to maximize the mining efficiency.
With new Hart of the Swarm patch came out the gameplay was a little bit simplified. Workers would automatically start harvesting minerals at the start of the game. Many argued that it wasn't the right desigion, but after the initial storm weathered almost no one objected against it anymore.

Just to put things in perspective: The youngest SC1 world champion was 14 years old, while in SC2 closer to 16.

Conclusion: Simplifying the micromanagement and mechanical part, you, as a developer, open up more time for strategical thinking. With this in mind take a good thought on this matter.

Your PvP part of the map is quite unique in a way that you also need do think about PvE part as well. I think it hase quite a potential.

1. That's rather odd. The Icon would be for dummy unit. The HP would be the dummy's. I'm not going to add a DDS on the map to detect the damage always. whenever the builder is attacked anyway, it won't go red. There are still many reasons.

2. The SC part is making me uncomfortable... I'll have a talk with other players about the Installation technique. It's more like of "the way I want it to be" than "how to make an ease of access through it." This is the same as the Destroy button in terms of uncomfort. I'll not implement both until i get my mind unfazed. I don't know why I feel uncomfortable about it... Decisions must come into one; people be saying different things I guess. I'll decide once I get a talk with it.

** Placement of the spawned trees is a very crucial part of the game, because if you can't find a wide enough space in time - the whole stratagy is literally screwed. Either generate them right at the start or add 5-7 second of free time to look around the map before choosing the game mode. This way people will have a moment to decide where they want to build and inform others with a ping.

*** - other stuff
*** Decorating the map is a different matter, but still needed, because the prettier it looks - the better the chance that people will remain engaged. It's been a long time since I played the WC3 "Iceborn" campaign, but the vision of those beautiful sceneries keep reemerging in my head again, and again and again.
It doesn't have to be the first priority, but at least something to catch an eye would be nice.

1. Seems reasonable. I'll think about it and how to do it.

2. I'll leave the decorating to someone else. I tried decorating the the map on the UNSEEN sides. So far no change in lag is seen, but the low-end computers have lag, which doesn't concern me anymore.
This is not my plan in the first place, because I for one don't have time to terrain anymore and study it. I have already a new project to commence on soon. I'll leave it to somebody else, if they want, but I'm not going to look.
Insanity Attack: My first and last finished map. I can't believe where it is standing today.

 

[Mammamia]

Updated post 55. 17.00 http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2685221-post55.html

> This is not my plan in the first place, because I for one don't have time to terrain anymore and study it. I have already a new project to commence on soon. I'll leave it to somebody else, if they want, but I'm not going to look.

Yea. That's what I thought.

> The SC part is making me uncomfortable...

Take your time

> 1. That's rather odd. The Icon would be for dummy unit. The HP would be the dummy's. I'm not going to add a DDS on the map to detect the damage always. whenever the builder is attacked anyway, it won't go red. There are still many reasons.

At least that's a start)
Base that dummy of a worker, then run a trigger that tracks peasant's current HP every 0,5-1 seconds. If they were decreased - play some sound. In case of heal (or moon shard hp regen make them equal to the main one.
Percentage based track should be good enough.
This is far from perfect, but hey, might work.

Implementing this will also free one control group for military units, as they are the main force of war.

> Insanity Attack: My first and last finished map. I can't believe where it is standing today.

_=(^_^)=_

 

[Mammamia]

Horray! I've beaten Chen, but five turtles 35k hp each is just too much. ... for now.

 

[Mammamia]

** I've just played a multiplayer ver 2.4 and that's what I can say: The more people in the game - the more dramatical the fps drop after the first boss and forth. Strangely enough when I lost my secondary worker it somewhat got better.

 

[CreepyShake]

Taking heavy lag even when playing with 2 players. I mean... First 20 minutes looks fine... Until Chen... I can barely move my screen to see my base blowing apart...

 

[Mammamia]

Taking heavy lag even when playing with 2 players. I mean... First 20 minutes looks fine... Until Chen... I can barely move my screen to see my base blowing apart...

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 1

I feel your pain man. Just do the good ol' WC3 surround. That helps. Or should I say preemptive wc3 surround.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map is updated to v3.0a

Few updates. I have made this update because I will be busy from now on and I can only accept fixing bugs already. (Depends though)

Forgive me, but I may not at all grant some suggestions. Maybe after I'm not busy anymore I can work on it.

Surely though, I'll find time.

** I've just played a multiplayer ver 2.4 and that's what I can say: The more people in the game - the more dramatical the fps drop after the first boss and forth. Strangely enough when I lost my secondary worker it somewhat got better.

I wonder what's causing it. Some few others do not experience it, while some does. Some also reported that when they lost their Assistant as well that performance got a bit better. Sigh... *bumps head*

Taking heavy lag even when playing with 2 players. I mean... First 20 minutes looks fine... Until Chen... I can barely move my screen to see my base blowing apart...

I'll try to reduce lag. But if you have a low-end computer then I can't really do much about it.

 

[fog1993]

- extraneous, but i like Chen >w<

 

[Sieghart93]

1. seriously no idea how to kill chen.. whats with 99% evasion? or was it 100%...
I cant find any spell user as well except the cleric and sorceress ....or is there any unit which can splash on ground @@?

2. i left chen aside stuck it somewhere.... then last boss.... 5k siege monster... just whats the most efficient army to kill it =.=? could it even be killed with single player...

 

[blancfaye7]

1. seriously no idea how to kill chen.. whats with 99% evasion? or was it 100%...
I cant find any spell user as well except the cleric and sorceress ....or is there any unit which can splash on ground @@?

2. i left chen aside stuck it somewhere.... then last boss.... 5k siege monster... just whats the most efficient army to kill it =.=? could it even be killed with single player...

Cleric and Sorceress are the only Spell Users you can train.
It's a 99% Evasion. She is killable though. I want the user to devise a tactic on how.

Jamaja can be killed as well in many ways. If you can't kill him, then you got to bolster up your forces and upgrade and manage resources.

 

[CreepyShake]

1. seriously no idea how to kill chen.. whats with 99% evasion? or was it 100%...
I cant find any spell user as well except the cleric and sorceress ....or is there any unit which can splash on ground @@?

2. i left chen aside stuck it somewhere.... then last boss.... 5k siege monster... just whats the most efficient army to kill it =.=? could it even be killed with single player...

1. Spash and Multi-shot tower will do it. Just don't hit Chen, hit the creeps around her.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map is updated to v3.1!

Check out the changelogs for this update.

Feel free to comment and suggest in this thread.

 

[blancfaye7]

First of all, not a necropost!

I think this is something useful.

I was planning to update the map again by:
1. trying to implement (again) the bulk buying of items for units in range around the shop.
2. add a unit recycling system to reduce frame lag at late game.

I will create a new thread about this in the development of insanity attack (the old dev thread of the map is already closed.)

Link to the dev thread

Edit: Map is now v3.2a. Check the changelogs.

 

[Heaven Editor]

I like your positive attitude responding to people's comments. You have made a lot of changes. I will try it soon. Stay positive. I love Infection Attack as I think I would love yours too.

 

[blancfaye7]

I like your positive attitude responding to people's comments. You have made a lot of changes. I will try it soon. Stay positive. I love Infection Attack as I think I would love yours too.

Thanks. I needed that!

I hope you'll like it.

---

Currently, I don't think I would implement the Recycler system anymore due to the facts I have learnt. The next update will be item balances and Chen balances (or maybe even Jamaja). Give me time.

 

[Deleted member 247165]

Not bad! It was entertaining. I like it. You get a 4/5 rate

 

[blancfaye7]

The map is updated!

v3.2b

Check out the changelogs. There are several updates and I need each tested or evaluated.

 

[Death Adder]

First of all I played this map 4 times in single player (For a total at about just above an hour), the furthest I got on "Very Easy" was the purple remember forgotten spirit or whatever that one shotted all my buildings. (lost 99% of my dps when my boulder towers died)

I quite liked the map, but in my opinion it's basically too much of a bother to learn the game. I can't even imagine how many times you would have to restart and replay the same first 20+ minutes just to learn what you have to do so you can actually understand what everything does.

Then every time you get a bit further you have to replay it even more to find out what the new stuff you unlocked or what the new enemy does and how to counter them.

As an example my first game was lost by default because I didn't know the units would spawn outside of the playable map area, so my base in the corner was obviously no good.

After the initial 10~ minutes there's no more pauses, so very little time to think. As a beginner I want to have a fairly easy time to read figure out how to play, read descriptions, stats, and so on.

The constant flow of units meant that I couldn't really take my time and learn the game. Obviously this isn't necessarily a bad thing for experienced players, but shouldn't they at least be playing the "Normal" difficulty? Why does this unending flow also apply to the "easiest" difficulty? To me it seems very much counter-intuitive.

It seems like the difficulty hasn't really been related to skill level, but rather the number of players.

There should be one selectable scale for player skill (V-Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, V-Hard) and the second automatic scaling related to how many players there are in the game.

• If you're bad / noob you should be able to win Very easy or easy.
  
• If you're not bad but not good you should be able to win in Normal and sometimes maybe Hard.
  
• If you're a good player you should be able to play alone and win in the hard and very hard difficulties.

Now it's entirely possible that I'm completely clueless and is overestimating the game's difficulty here, but I'm pretty sure I even saw the Map Author say that he's only won once on very easy difficulty somewhere early in the thread.

That should be pretty telling that the difficulty scaling is pretty screwed up.

Ok, so now my suggestions here:

-Scale the difficulty by number of players separately from the selected difficulty. Whether or not you play V-Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, or Insane shouldn't be strictly proportional to how many players are in the game.

-Make the building time scale with how many players are playing and/or the selected difficulty level. (Including the cooldown for powerbuilding)

After making my base I just couldn't expand it any further without my buildings instantly being focused down and eventually there wasn't enough room or even worse I made my base too big so I couldn't wall it off in time before the purple ghosts came and one-shotted all my towers.

I can see how the powerbuild mechanic would make this a non-issue for multiplayer (assuming there's some basic communication), a couple of players could blink forward and place walls and some could place some towers and voila you've got an instantly built extension to your base.

I didn't have that luxury in singleplayer.​

-Give some short breaks in the lower difficulties so beginners aren't overwhelmed by having to read and learn massive amounts of information without dying while they're doing it.

-Increase the Acquisition range of the units, especially melee, they just stand there like dumb bricks. My units weren't attacked at all until I literally made a wall of them to block the enemy movement.

I don't see how there could be any risk of the units running off on goose chases all over the map, none of the enemy units care about your units besides the towers and buildings being built, so there's just no way your units will run away from the base.​

p.s. I didn't read the F9 quest log, but considering that there is no room for any breathers and that opening quest log doesn't pause the game in multiplayer you shouldn't be expecting beginners to spend much time there to begin with.

In my mind it's more of a tool like google and wikia pages. After you've already caught their interest first and they want to find out more about your map, certain details, tricks & tips, they will take their time to read on their own at their leisure as new things show up one after the other.

You know when you buy games, how often do you read the game manual that come with it? Probably never, right? At the most you'll quickly gloss it over while the game is installing.

You shouldn't expect any player to invest half an hour or whatever of their time to read front-loaded info dumps before they even know what the game is all about.

Especially so for online multiplayer with randoms.

 

[blancfaye7]

Thank you for your response!

After the initial 10~ minutes there's no more pauses, so very little time to think. As a beginner I want to have a fairly easy time to read figure out how to play, read descriptions, stats, and so on.

I was already thinking about this at some point when I was developing. Same issue on reading what the Quest Logs are written on. I was supposedly planning on making a yet another easier difficulty... but it will take some time. I started making it but I haven't finished it yet. I think I was working on it since v3.0. Because this was started few years ago, some of my triggers aren't that awesome. The 30+ triggers would take time again to scale and everything; and because of that as well I tend to become lazy.

Now it's entirely possible that I'm completely clueless and is overestimating the game's difficulty here, but I'm pretty sure I even saw the Map Author say that he's only won once on very easy difficulty somewhere early in the thread.

That should be pretty telling that the difficulty scaling is pretty screwed up.

That time was then a really screwed up version. I've balanced some things out (in the current 'skill level difficulty' set up; currently there is only one, which is Hard.)

There should be one selectable scale for player skill (V-Easy, Easy, Normal, Hard, V-Hard) and the second automatic scaling related to how many players there are in the game.
If you're bad / noob you should be able to win Very easy or easy.
If you're not bad but not good you should be able to win in Normal and sometimes maybe Hard.
If you're a good player you should be able to play alone and win in the hard and very hard difficulties.

Yes. I have somewhere stated that in the thread. The words in the "difficulty setting" is very misleading indeed. It should not be even worded as Easy, Normal, etc... if it is based on the number of players. I am also trying to set up a REAL difficulty environment, but as said above that would take tweaking on several triggers... If I had a lot of time to invest it was already done, but alas...

Give some short breaks in the lower difficulties so beginners aren't overwhelmed by having to read and learn massive amounts of information without dying while they're doing it.

I'll see what I can do about this. My events were literally periodic events. Maybe prolonging the timers are enough (?)

-Increase the Acquisition range of the units, especially melee, they just stand there like dumb bricks. My units weren't attacked at all until I literally made a wall of them to block the enemy movement.
I don't see how there could be any risk of the units running off on goose chases all over the map, none of the enemy units care about your units besides the towers and buildings being built, so there's just no way your units will run away from the base.

Damn... That means that their acquisition range is still that low. I will adjust it. Thanks for the feedback.

-Make the building time scale with how many players are playing and/or the selected difficulty level.

I-I'll see what I can do. This is a good idea, but I kinda forgot if this is possible in GUI triggers.

Summary of Difficulty Confusion
The menu that is showed is a Player-count-based level. Currently, it is selectable.
But the ACTUAL difficulty setting is not defined. Currently, it can only be defined as HARD and it cannot be changed... for now.

 

[Death Adder]

I'll see what I can do about this. My events were literally periodic events. Maybe prolonging the timers are enough (?)

Probably not ideal, but a way to at least try it out could be to simply turn off the spawn triggers (temporarily) and pause the timer for new events.

I-I'll see what I can do. This is a good idea, but I kinda forgot if this is possible in GUI triggers.

You can't do it by triggers, at least not directly, but what you could do is create units without models that have the "locust" and "human repair" abilities. Basically it would speed up the work speed as if you had multiple workers building the building.

I've messed around with something similar in the past so if you need trigger / test map I could probably put something together to give you an idea to make it fit your map.

Summary of Difficulty Confusion
The menu that is showed is a Player-count-based level. Currently, it is selectable.
But the ACTUAL difficulty setting is not defined. Currently, it can only be defined as HARD and it cannot be changed... for now.

Alright, that makes sense. So really there wasn't as much about the difficulty not working as it's simply confusing or misleading.

That said, since it appears you're already making quite a lot of changes it's probably best to save this for last. Since the difficulty would most likely change you might have to redo your own work afterwards which would be pretty counter-productive.

Either way, good job and good luck!

 

[blancfaye7]

Probably not ideal, but a way to at least try it out could be to simply turn off the spawn triggers (temporarily) and pause the timer for new events.



You can't do it by triggers, at least not directly, but what you could do is create units without models that have the "locust" and "human repair" abilities. Basically it would speed up the work speed as if you had multiple workers building the building.

I've messed around with something similar in the past so if you need trigger / test map I could probably put something together to give you an idea to make it fit your map.

Hey, thanks for these suggestions! They never crossed my head... I will definitely implement these to complete the 'skill-level' difficulty ranges.

you might have to redo your own work

But yeah, thanks! This definitely brightened a side of the map.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map updated to v3.3!

Check out the change logs for details. Made a lot of changes. Major changes will come up soon as stated on the Future Releases section of the Map description.

 

[Death Adder]

Map updated to v3.3!

Check out the change logs for details. Made a lot of changes. Major changes will come up soon as stated on the Future Releases section of the Map description.

I tried the new updated map again (only once so far) and did much better now when the units fought much more. (Still lost against the Purple ghost though, but I guess I need a better/faster build order)

Besides that I've got a couple of questions / suggestions.


So I'm just wondering, why does the income buildings train units to produce gold or wood? Is there a reason why you don't just trigger the income with periodic event or timers?

Honestly it's not a super big deal, but you can't upgrade to the next tier while training so I have to cancel the training and then upgrade. And sometimes I won't have the gold or wood to upgrade all the ones I selected so I would have stopped some of them from producing income and now I have to select them and manually enable the training again.

Again it's not really a big deal, but it seems like it's pointlessly annoying.

Another suggestion: How about having a toggle ability added to the barracks building, when enabled it would automatically train the same as last unit type and when disabled it does nothing.

Basically the same as how the current gold and wood income buildings work.

I just thought it would be nice if I could focus more on building buildings instead of micro. (So far I haven't even used the assistant workers outside of basic repairing because of micro)

I think it's a pretty good idea, since the good players who might not need it can just leave it disabled, while bad players / or ones with weak micro / ones too lazy don't have to stress too much about it.

The demerit would be that it will take up one command button slot.

 

[blancfaye7]

So I'm just wondering, why does the income buildings train units to produce gold or wood? Is there a reason why you don't just trigger the income with periodic event or timers?

I... actually wanted this to be part of the macro + micro. What disturbs me too is the animation of the mills. If I trigger them the animation won't be smooth. It's a minor detail and it's not really an issue. But then I could have triggered it if I didn't want it.

Another suggestion: How about having a toggle ability added to the barracks building, when enabled it would automatically train the same as last unit type and when disabled it does nothing.

Basically the same as how the current gold and wood income buildings work.

I just thought it would be nice if I could focus more on building buildings instead of micro. (So far I haven't even used the assistant workers outside of basic repairing because of micro)

I think it's a pretty good idea, since the good players who might not need it can just leave it disabled, while bad players / or ones with weak micro / ones too lazy don't have to stress too much about it.

The demerit would be that it will take up one command button slot.

You just answered the question to this problem. But thank you for reminding me.
A player had suggested this already somewhere on my chat box. It seems I have forgotten about this. It would be super amazing to have a feature like this.
Remembering, it can have its own drawbacks. The auto-train can become excessive, which would be much of a problem than commanding the building to train.
I can honestly just set the button universally somewhere on the Main Hall. (if it's not filled. I forgot already lol).
I will take this into consideration. I would need to look up on these again after fulfilling all the things in the future releases.

EDIT
Need to spread rep before giving to you again! Noooooooo.....ooo......oo.....o....

 

[Death Adder]

I... actually wanted this to be part of the macro + micro. What disturbs me too is the animation of the mills. If I trigger them the animation won't be smooth. It's a minor detail and it's not really an issue. But then I could have triggered it if I didn't want it.

It doesn't work to just make them play the animation? I thought they loop it on their own. Otherwise I think you can queue the animations to play as the finish.

You just answered the question to this problem. But thank you for reminding me.
Remembering, it can have its own drawbacks. The auto-train can become excessive, which would be much of a problem than commanding the building to train.

Yeah, that's why I mentioned that there has to be the option to turn it on and off. In my opinion it should be more of a Quality of Life feature for new, bad, and lazy players.

The reason why I suggested it to be toggled for each building individually is because then you can configure it better.

Maybe you want one barrack to constantly produce melee units because they're dying like flies (at least the free ones) but you produce the ranged and caster units with a second barrack on your own as your need increase.

If it's really no good to have that extra button on the buildings themselves, maybe you could give the base building a single target ability which you use on buildings to toggle it? Instead of having to decide between all auto or all manual. (Unless this is what you meant.)

 

[blancfaye7]

It doesn't work to just make them play the animation? I thought they loop it on their own. Otherwise I think you can queue the animations to play as the finish.



Yeah, that's why I mentioned that there has to be the option to turn it on and off. In my opinion it should be more of a Quality of Life feature for new, bad, and lazy players.

The reason why I suggested it to be toggled for each building individually is because then you can configure it better.

Maybe you want one barrack to constantly produce melee units because they're dying like flies (at least the free ones) but you produce the ranged and caster units with a second barrack on your own as your need increase.

If it's really no good to have that extra button on the buildings themselves, maybe you could give the base building a single target ability which you use on buildings to toggle it? Instead of having to decide between all auto or all manual. (Unless this is what you meant.)

For animation mills it's not really a big deal, but...
The animation of finishing seems to make the Lumber Log to quickly go back without animation, unless there is something wrong I am doing.

The target skill instead is a better one, but where should I put a constant notifier (or tooltip which they can see) that the building is automatically producing units?

 

[Death Adder]

How about a buff with a big red exclamation mark as it's visual effect and tooltip, or something like that? You could also go a step further and have two buffs, one for auto and one for manual, but I don't know how useful that really is. (To also show what buildings can be targeted for the auto function.)

 

[blancfaye7]

How about a buff with a big red exclamation mark as it's visual effect and tooltip or something like that? You could also go a step further and have two buffs, one for auto and one for manual, but I don't know how useful that is.

That seems to be in order. Maybe an attachment or something .

But then again, I also remembered triggering many of my skills that made me use default abilities instead. The map was lagging very bad already because of the triggers with generic unit events. I;m trying to keep it low now. These ideas can be applicable if I recoded every foolish methods I did. The map really was just that amateurishly coded. (I think I was still in 1st~2nd year HS! LONG TIME ALREADY!)

Also, the ideas of lumber mills and mine stated can be implemented as well.
I also remembered that the animation depends on how long the unit is being trained. But if I choose to not care anymore then it's all set to be implemented after the planned route currently taken.

Be sure to bump if I forgot. I am forgetful nowadays.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map updated to v4.0.

Huge change was made. Check the changelogs.

Please report any bugs. Expect it to be buggy at the moment because of the big change i did.

EDIT: I reuploaded the map. I made some clumsy mistake ._.

Download the map again if you had't seen this message yet... or something.

 

[LimitingBounds]

Expect ramped up difficulty, players. Tried this like cocaine.XDDD

Taking this back. We found a recent unattended inconsistency. Fixing it at this moment.

 

[elfleadermike]

Massive FPS drop happened when timer hit around 30 minutes left, became unplayable and walls died because I couldn't manage repairs or anything of note properly.

Aside from that pretty fun game, just needs to be playable until the end.

 

[blancfaye7]

Massive FPS drop happened when timer hit around 30 minutes left, became unplayable and walls died because I couldn't manage repairs or anything of note properly.

Aside from that pretty fun game, just needs to be playable until the end.

Sad to say that you need a good computer for this one... unless there is something wrong i am doing in triggering that i don't know about (which is highly unlikely?)

 

[elfleadermike]

Sad to say that you need a good computer for this one... unless there is something wrong i am doing in triggering that i don't know about (which is highly unlikely?)

Maybe, I didn't think my computer was anywhere near bad. But there's definitely FPS drops. Here's my specs for reference.

 

[blancfaye7]

Maybe, I didn't think my computer was anywhere near bad. But there's definitely FPS drops. Here's my specs for reference.

Your computer is definitely superior than mine... in all aspects.
How much FPS drop did you experience? When did you experience the FPS drop? Was it when you're fighting a boss? There are parts of the map where there can be FPS drops...

As for my side, it's going smoothly except for specific parts.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map updated to v4.0a

Nothing big. just a patch from the fatal bug mentioned.

 

[blancfaye7]

Okay. The 4.x series of the map updates is obviously the most retarded updates I have ever made.

Several bugs I noticed myself:
- Boss upgrades wont work anymore.
- Enemy upgrades wont work anymore.
- Declaring war on another player still renders their projectiles to be shown even behind fog.
- And many more.

I will fix these as soon as I can, but surely as I can. It seems my players don't notice the change...

In the meantime, please use v3.3, the most stable version.

 

[blancfaye7]

Map updated to v4.0b.

HOPEFULLY, this does the final fix, except for the projectile vision stated here:
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/map-development-202/insanity-attack-cont-278972/index2.html#post2832607

EDIT: On the next version, I might consider rebalancing first before adding the difficulty levels (skill based). After fixing the fatal bug I had to rebalance things again...

 

[blancfaye7]

Map is updated to v4.1.

Mostly balance changes, so the default skill based difficulty is reset to unknown.
It needs testing to be defined, though I think it would be less than Hard as based from the previous versions.

 

[blancfaye7]

Infection Attack by Asiliuxas map gave me inspiration!

Not really copied. I tried contacting the guy behind the map and suggested many things with balance changes, features, lag problems, desyncs... turned out the map hadn't got any updates anymore; I also don't plan on cracking the map of his so I recreated it.

[IDK if he got back to it now though; had not checked since the very first version of this map]

Also, about the map size... it's probably because of the models and textures that I supplied to the map just so that the structures and units have noticeable team color... and it's probably a lot. lol.

Also, I'm actually worried about the "more balanced now"...
Is the map kinda easy now? Because that would be a problem again.

 

[DaneTheBeast]

Many people made the spin-offs of zombie invasion, there are more than 3 versions all by different people. Now your job is to make this one unique in a way. I didn't test the map but from the screenshots it seems to be the same as other versions.