Modelling Contest #25 - Ascension

[Chucky]

The topology on the guy is a little messy. Try as hard as you can to keep the model made out of nothing but quads. The horse looks good, but you need to remake his tail. Next time use fewer segments and taper it near the end. And then weld all of the verts into a point for the last bit of the tail.

I did a few annotations in photoshop to show you where you need to fix topology.

Man

1: Stars. Stars are bad. They mess up shading and animation. Try to remove edges that do not A) Contribute to silhouette or B) Help with animation.

2: More stars. Kill them.

3: Stars. Try to make sure every intersection has only 4 edges leading to it. 5 is sometimes ok, but you don't want 6 or more except in some cases where it is required. (Like the top of a sphere.)

4: Thats an N-Gon. (polygon with more than four sides.) Also messes up shading and animation. Try cutting it into two separate polygons.

5: This entire string of polys seems unneeded. Weld them together if you can.

There is also another pair of stars I just noticed in the armpit under 3.

Try to fix mistakes like this over the whole model. It will make it all around better.

Horse

1: N-Gon again. Try to get rid of it.

2: This isn't a big problem but if you have extra time see if you can also get rid of it.

As for my model, I tried broader shoulders earlier on and they looked wrong. I will add particles later though.

Ninja Edit:

"Wings!"

Thanks a bunch, going from 2d art to 3d modelling is a bit of a hassle and these were my first models ever I guess I need more practice...btw yours is in Zbrush then exported to Max ?

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Well, I tried to use Zbrush to make and retopologize the face of the first character, but that didn't work because it didn't blend with warcraft 3 well. I made the character you're looking at now entirely in max. I mostly use Zbrush for 3d concepts and extremely detailed models. Sometimes for environment art and faces.

If this is your first time making models, it might be better to practice on something other than a character first. Characters are hard.
UV mapping is frustrating to learn, and it's required for texturing. Plus, you're using max 10, which doesn't have the advanced UV tools that come with max 2012 and onward and make unwrapping things much easier.
Before you animate anything make sure you read blinkboy's simple animation tutorial and look up the twelve principles of animation.

 

[Kyrbi0]

I'd love to comment at length but have no time. Thus:

@BallisticTerrain: Looking great! Very glad we (or having to remake the mesh) didn't scare you off! And yes, it's definitely a lot more Warcraft-y.

However, it's missing something. Unfortunately I don't have time now to say anything about it, but AnemicRoyalty pretty much covered it from head-to-toe. Follow his advice and you'll get much farther than I could get you.

That being said, I'd love to comment on what "extra" could be given him for that true Wc3 style/silhouette (love that word)... But it would help to know what exactly he is. Aside from a Hero-Necromancer (as the original), I'm not sure if you still intend for him to be the "Spore Lord" dude ("Fungimancer"? "Toadstool Prince"? "Mycomancer"? "Keeper of the Spores"? etc.). Either way, I have to say that he already looks too much like another "hero-ified Necromancer"; doesn't the Lich have those exact same feathery-tentacle-robe-things that he hovers on? Might want to redesign that part, if only for the sake of the profile-comparison with the Lich. :<

Lookin' good, though.

@Chucky: Awexome! I've always wanted to see a super-Knight... Make sure as a "holy crusader" not to encroach too much on the Paladin & his artistic style.

Not sure exactly how you'll do it, but if you end up following some ancient Beta concept art...
Let's just say we'd all be impressed. The Crusader needs Wc3 revival.

Either way, looking forward to it. Again, I can't really help you aside from with ideas; BT's probably doing much more to help you in terms of mesh adjustments. Listen well, my child. Good luck!

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Not sure if you saw latest update Krybi.

"Reveal"

How does that look? Sorry for double posting, but people might miss it.
I still need to come up with a name for him. Definitely not mushroom themed anymore. More "Guardian of the Dead" now.

 

[Chucky]

@Chucky: Awexome! I've always wanted to see a super-Knight... Make sure as a "holy crusader" not to encroach too much on the Paladin & his artistic style.

Not sure exactly how you'll do it, but if you end up following some ancient Beta concept art...
Let's just say we'd all be impressed. The Crusader needs Wc3 revival.

Thanks for the encouragement, I already started to redefine the rider's mesh and it's looking much better thanks to BallisticTerrain's suggestions. As for the art style I won't go for a typical War3 Paladin but something quite different, something related to angels and the sun, sun power, basically kind of a mounted human angel, divine protector of all that's pure and noble. Can't wait to start adding particles

 

[BallisticTerrain]

I have a question, will I get a lower score when it comes time for judging if I have missing faces on the inside of the skull helmet where they can't be seen to reduce poly count?

 

[MiniMage]

I have a question, will I get a lower score when it comes time for judging if I have missing faces on the inside of the skull helmet where they can't be seen to reduce poly count?

I think it would be stupid if they did. Since many wc3 models are like that. The intention is to get a model that fits warcraft. Thus by that logic, it would only contribute to that aspect, right?

 

[stonneash]

And can anyone tell me why my normals are fucked up when I export from max using the NeoDex exporter ?
View attachment 128377

It happens to me too, try AT animating through NeoDex, there is a tutorial for that.

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Here's a blockout of team color. I'm not completely done modeling yet, but I want to go ahead and figure out where to put all of it.
Straight up read means normal team color.
Gradient/fuzzy red means hero glow.

Reveal

I'm also thinking of making the portrait a separate model and making said model noticeably higher resolution than the original mesh since I only have to keep the head and a few other parts.

 

[HappyCockroach]

here's a sketch of my idea...

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Is that a faerie dragon hero?

 

[HappyCockroach]

Is that a faerie dragon hero?

yep.

 

[stonneash]

yep.

Moe of a fairy dragon wizard\shaman

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Alright, I'm about done with the mesh. If you have any ideas for things I should add, post now.

Here's the model: https://sketchfab.com/show/57518df17c0b4cc6bdfa68e0bc155059

PS: Don't look under his skirt.

 

[Kwaliti]

I have a question, will I get a lower score when it comes time for judging if I have missing faces on the inside of the skull helmet where they can't be seen to reduce poly count?

That counts as optimization. What won't be seen shouldn't be there.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Still got no time... But BT, you force my hand.

First thing, Sketchfab fails to load for me no matter what I do. If possible, I appreciate a quick print-screen. No big deal, though.

I gotta say, it's definitely looking better... The Warcraft style of 'low-poly' is pretty much there, and the shoulder-hooks (Kerrigan, much?) give it a definite & unique silhouette, as we've discussed...

However, it's just striking a weird chord for me. I'm not sure if it's because of how similar it looks to the Lich, still (will I/we ever be able to escape that bias, given it's an Undead 'hero necromancer'? Then again, since this is a modelling contest & not a hero contest, does the comparison even matter?). Also, it looks strikingly-similar to this interesting model by Donut3.5 (not sure if that was intentional). But yeah. Just some thoughts.

I could be totally wrong. I'd be interested to see him skinned & moving. I'm just worried; I feel like as a "guardian of death", he should have some more... character? Right now he makes me think "Lich + abomination Hook-tentacles". Guardian of death... Books? Coffin? Partially mummified? Jackal's-head? Skulled Shield?

Two last gripes:
1) You've got lots of Team-Color, but look at other models; rarely do they include it merely at the tips of everything (as you have done). Usually shoulder-pads, chest/back-plates, dress, arms/legs (bracers), stripes, helmet, etc... Gotta be easily seen from in-game.

2) Staff... Better than last one, but still really thin & lacking in... panache (wow, looked it up; that word actually means the right thing in that context ).

~

Again, might just be me. Sorry if I seem overly critical. :< Just trying to help.

~~~

HappyCockroach, glad to see you could join us. I'm quite interested in seeing the Faerie Dragon chosen as a base (along with the Meat Wagon, one of the rarer entries). Remember that it need not be a direct translation (hero-version looks like unit, but more heroic), but can also be more indirect (like this concept art paired with this concept.)

 

[BallisticTerrain]

It does look a little like the lich. Maybe it IS a lich, hell, but I think the skin and animations will set it apart from the lich well enough. Also, I don't think it looks very much like that model you linked at all.
Screw you Krybi. (J/K?)

You're right. He does need some sort of accessory. I actually REALLY like the skulled shield idea. It would fit quite literally perfectly.

The team color was just a draft. I will omit some of it, and I forgot to post the blockout I did of the back where I put a team colored plate on the back of his chest armor.

The staff was made with his attack animation in mind. Basically he will reach out, grasping the middle of the staff, and then flick his hand, which will cause the staff to blast magic and throw him into a massive recoil where his chains and body move around. The sphere and floating ring will move around wildly, but act as if they are connected via a ghostly chain. The rest of the staff is a collection of wood sticks haphazardly tied together.

He's sort of a half melee and half ranged necromancer death king.
The chains should make for a really cool death animation. As he sinks struggling into the ground, he will attempt to hook into the ground with his chain hooks and stay above before finally failing and double dying.

Also, don't worry, the sketchfab is just a 3d view of the screenshot I posted earlier.
I'll add the shield and then start the unwrapping. I wonder if I can make a melee attack his primary form of attack via chains and then use the animation described above as the spell animation. Would be even better with the shield. I could also add a ring of floating spikes around the sphere on the staff and have him use that to attack.

 

[Kyrbi0]

It does look a little like the lich. Maybe it IS a lich, hell, but I think the skin and animations will set it apart from the lich well enough. Also, I don't think it looks very much like that model you linked at all.
Screw you Krybi. (J/K?)

Lol, it happens. It's very much an opinion-based matter.

Also, I wasn't talking about the Abomination-torso; obviously that is different. But the Hook Horror has huge shoulder-mounted chained-hook-hands that (presumably on yours) swipe, and locomotes by means of a ring of chained-hook/claw-feet... Both of which are the primary "selling points" of your model (things that make it unique, different, cool, etc).

You're right. He does need some sort of accessory. I actually REALLY like the skulled shield idea. It would fit quite literally perfectly.

Oh, huh. You're welcome? I actually was just throwing it out there... But it's not bad. The biggest thing would be to make sure it doesn't look too much like the Revenant's (or WhiteDeath's "Hero Revenant" 's) shield. Maybe google some cool cultural shield (Norse? Indian? Kamchatkaian? ) and 'death-ify' it.

The staff was made with his attack animation in mind. Basically he will reach out, grasping the middle of the staff, and then flick his hand, which will cause the staff to blast magic and throw him into a massive recoil where his chains and body move around. The sphere and floating ring will move around wildly, but act as if they are connected via a ghostly chain. The rest of the staff is a collection of wood sticks haphazardly tied together.

He's sort of a half melee and half ranged necromancer death king.
The chains should make for a really cool death animation. As he sinks struggling into the ground, he will attempt to hook into the ground with his chain hooks and stay above before finally failing and double dying.

Ah, cool. Didn't know you could do animations. That'll definitely do a lot towards giving him some character; I can already tell the death anim will be neat.

Your description of the staff-usage is a tad confusing, but I'll just trust you that it's not just "wave staff - magic bolt". Just saying the physical design of the mesh might be a little off in terms of Warcraft-ness.

Always cool, though, to have a unique hero in terms of gameplay (melee intelligence, ranged strength, etc). As a designer, it's a unique challenge; you have to find ways to counter the common issues with such a build (i.e. Intelligence heroes usually lack in Str, so are weak & ranged to stay alive... a melee intelligence hero must be able to keep himself alive. See Goblin Tinker).

Keep it up.

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Nailed it.

He's the hero the undead deserve, but not the one they need.

 

[Chucky]

Nailed it.

He's the hero the undead deserve, but not the one they need.

It looks so cool, good job on adding those upper chains, still something bugs me about those that come out of his skirt...they look too much like the Lich's robe. Work more on the silhouette !

 

[Deolrin]

While the model looks extremely cool, BT, I must say he looks a bit too thin and flimsy to fit in WC3. The proportions are very long and thin; The reverse is usually true for Warcraft 3 models. Those bracers\gloves on his arms can be much thicker, and so could his arms themselves; Also, does he REALLY need all 5 fingers modeled out? Can't you introduce them as a cleverly-textured 2D plane thing, sort of like what the banshee has? Or maybe just make them cubical WC3 hands?
His chest and the bottom part of him can also be wider. All in all, I think the biggest non-WC3 part of him right now are his proportions. They're too slender, while most WC3 things are bulky. Even the lich has a very bulky upper body and head - not to mention that thing on his back. In fact, I think that's exactly what your model needs - a big, bulky part of him that draws attention. His head, or something on his back(the coffin idea is cool), would be ideal.

 

[HammerFist132]

Hello guys, I have learnt animating is 3ds max so maybe I will join.
One question: we need to create new version of some wc3 model? For excample new tauren chiften?

 

[HappyCockroach]

Hello guys, I have learnt animating is 3ds max so maybe I will join.
One question: we need to create new version of some wc3 model? For excample new tauren chiften?

we need to read the contest guidelines at the first post of this thread.

 

[HammerFist132]

I did, but I never understand it . That is my main problem.

 

[Kaizer]

wow, there so many awesome entries

anyways..

WIP 3

did some retexturing, remapping, replacing... alot of "re"
I'm also currently learning animation from Retera, so expect it to have a new animation soon

I'm brainstorming on what kind of replacement is suitable for the whole arm, I want to change the arm because it very much resembles the unit =/

 

[Amargaard]

Hello guys, I have learnt animating is 3ds max so maybe I will join.
One question: we need to create new version of some wc3 model? For excample new tauren chiften?

Nope you have to turn a WC3 UNIT into a HERO model.
The Tauren Chieftain is already a hero, so you can't use that one, but you can choose the average Tauren unit if you want, and change him to a badass hero model

 

[BallisticTerrain]

You make a good point Deolrin. I'll change the proportions around and then move on to texturing. However, I think I'll keep the hands as they are. I modeled them after the dreadlord's hands (he has individual fingers to) and I think they fit. I guess I could make a plane work but I think his current hands are better. I made sure they were big too, so they can be seen.

 

[HammerFist132]

Nope you have to turn a WC3 UNIT into a HERO model.
The Tauren Chieftain is already a hero, so you can't use that one, but you can choose the average Tauren unit if you want, and change him to a badass hero model

Thank you, that even I can understand

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Ok, I bulked up his bracers, and slightly his upper arms, his entire upper torso got bigger, I changed the shape of his kilt slightly, and I removed about 50 triangles worth of unneeded polys.

It helped alot. I don't know If I want to add anything else. It might overcrowd the model.

Reveal

 

[Deolrin]

Give him massive horns. Or a helmet with horns. Then it'll be perfect.

 

[BallisticTerrain]

I don't know about that. It's not too late, although it almost is. (I'm unwrapping it right now.) I can still make horns and add them to the object I haven't unwrapped yet.
Horns are really overdone though, and I think It would also make him look kind of top heavy. If you really look at the model and visualize him with horns the result is not very good. I didn't include the horns for a specific reason pertaining to the design and texturing of his helmet and the way I want it to look.
I'll do it and see how it ends up anyways.

 

[Rui]

Too Loki with horns perhaps? =P

 

[Amargaard]

Yeah, if I were to choose, I'd say no horns too, if you are going for an undead approach that is - he already got those giant hooks/wings/whatever, but if you're making a demon thingie he just can't have enough of those crazy features

 

[Deolrin]

But the thing is, there seems to be very little detail on his head, which is one of the most important aspects of the model. Maybe it'll look better with a texture, I don't know - but I just don't see what you're planning for his head.
And besides, the original necromancer had a really cool helmet, and it was one of his most defining aspects. There should probably be some tie-ins with the original model, no? :<

 

[HammerFist132]

Guys I will do some, high priest, does models have to be scratch done?

 

[BlinkBoy]

Guys I will do some, high priest, does models have to be scratch done?

Nope as far as you use wc3 models as base. No other game exports.

I suggest you also make some meshes on your own and try reunwrapping some areas.

 

[Kyrbi0]

WIP 3

did some retexturing, remapping, replacing... alot of "re"
I'm also currently learning animation from Retera, so expect it to have a new animation soon

I'm brainstorming on what kind of replacement is suitable for the whole arm, I want to change the arm because it very much resembles the unit =/

Not bad, definitely coming along. I'm a little surprised you kept the ultra-crown-of-swords Weapon; I dunno, maybe seeing it in-game won't be so bad.

In fact, I'd like to make that an official request; can you give us at least a picture or two that isn't zoomed into his nostril? Lol, but seriously, your model fills the whole screen, which is good for seeing details (keep doing that), but seeing a little bit of color around the edge (zoom out a bit in Magos, then take a screenshot & crop it) would really help get a feel for his proportions. That, and/or the same thing but from an actual in-game perspective (since I know it'd be a hassle to upload it into the WE everytime you wanted to take a pic).

Just a suggestion.

Along with that, I like what you've got, and look forward to some custom animations. I would highly suggest some changes along those lines, to really emphasize the differences between the unit & the hero. I look at in-game pics, and I see the cool concept art you appear to be going from... I love Samwise's art, but have to admit it's not truly as full of character as Hero might be.

Differently-shaped helmet/head, perhaps? Modified skin color? Actual eyes?

Hello guys, I have learnt animating is 3ds max so maybe I will join.
One question: we need to create new version of some wc3 model? For excample new tauren chiften?

~~~

I did, but I never understand it . That is my main problem.

Hum, really? Yeah, I did my best to not only provide some really big detailed explanations, but also a variety of pictures (First and Second Posts) and a nice simple explanation at the very top in blue. :<

Take any in-game unit and make a Hero-version of it. DON'T just take the footman, add hero glow & a longer sword, for example. Examples:
Take a Footman and make a Gladiator
Take the Tornado and make a Wind Lord
Take Witch Doctor and make a Medicine Mon
Etc. Post here if you need some (more) ideas.

So that raises the question; can my explanation be simplified? What didn't you understand?

I have a question, will I get a lower score when it comes time for judging if I have missing faces on the inside of the skull helmet where they can't be seen to reduce poly count?

Shouldn't, but I suppose... Hum. On the one hand, you're right, Blizzard has made tons of little model gaffes, so if this is made to fit Blizzard, there's a bit of room for error. However, does that you mean you intentionally allow faults & errors in, or neglect proper modeling practices? I should think not... If anything, making something correctly (i.e. better than Blizzard, but still fitting the style) should be the goal.

But yeah, inside the helmet seems like a waste. I'd be surprised to see you graded off on that.

Ok, I bulked up his bracers, and slightly his upper arms, his entire upper torso got bigger, I changed the shape of his kilt slightly, and I removed about 50 triangles worth of unneeded polys.

It helped alot. I don't know If I want to add anything else. It might overcrowd the model.

Reveal

I'm gonna have to agree with Deolrin a lot here... It's definitely looking better, but there's a certain "OOMPH". It might just be all those hooks; I look at it and I see 'hook-hook-hook-hook-hook...". In fact, it's almost more like a Meat Wagon hero than a Necromancer hero The Lich has the "pharaoh" vibe, which is emphasized by the HUGE ceremonial head-dress behind him.
Now since you're trying to differentiate him from the Lich, I would avoid that... But something else huge on his back/head... Horns? Coffin? library of evil books? Flowing tatters of cape? Um.

Also, what a cute buckler.

 

[HammerFist132]

Well maybe it is too detailed for me, plus I am on mobile so reading know to be problematic.

 

[stonneash]

Am thinking of making my shaman, a shadow overlord\warlord.

 

[A.R.]

The main model is finished apart from the blood splat event objects during Death, haven't started on the Portrait yet. Gonna make a start on that tomorrow, when I'm not super tired and hung over

So, folks: what are your thoughts on these two colour schemes?

 

[Deolrin]

I prefer the left one. It's more warcraftish. Although the eyes should still be green, I think.

 

[JokeMaster]

I agree with Deolrin green eyes fit better.

 

[Kyrbi0]

The main model is finished apart from the blood splat event objects during Death, haven't started on the Portrait yet. Gonna make a start on that tomorrow, when I'm not super tired and hung over

So, folks: what are your thoughts on these two colour schemes?

Noice!

I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon, here, and agree that the Green eyes are a keeper (also, it appears you used the same texture-source for the gem in her tiara; green goes better there, too).

I'm not sure I can decide which one I like better, though. The one on the left seems more Blood Elven (if that's what you were going for), while the one on the right has more of a generic/High Elf/trickster/juggler kinda feel for me (which I kinda liked).

Also, the pink... 'crotch strap' is just garish either way. Definitely gold or something.

Most importantly, what happened to the arm-scarf Runes? That was a great place for TC & one of my favorite parts of the model.

 

[Rui]

Oh, I just noticed the lack of runes too. That was one of my favorite parts of the model too, definitely should stay.

Most importantly for me, however, is that the model actually looks original. I actually thought it was supposed to be a succubus of some kind, but I guess the hair doesn't look demonic.

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Ok here's the LAST WIP of the mesh.

We heard you like hooks, so we put hooks on your hooks to you can hook while you hook.

 

[Rui]

._. Needs a hairbrush

 

[Kyrbi0]

Ok here's the LAST WIP of the mesh.

We heard you like hooks, so we put hooks on your hooks to you can hook while you hook.

PERFECT!

Stop right now. Unwrap it, animate it, bake it and your done. Contest winner right here everyone. Now he's got character.

 

[A.R.]

Quick Animation Teaser while I'm working on the Portrait:

Stand 1

Stand 2

Most importantly, what happened to the arm-scarf Runes? That was a great place for TC & one of my favorite parts of the model.

It really didn't telegraph well in-game; the runes were too small and thin and WC3's texture filtering ate it.
The runes were fun but sometimes you gotta axe cool ideas for practicality

The new cloth looks much better in-game (and it's full, plush TC) and the blurring caused by the tiny mip-maps when the faces are at an angle isn't an issue.

 

[Kyrbi0]

Quick Animation Teaser while I'm working on the Portrait:

Stand 1

Stand 2

It really didn't telegraph well in-game; the runes were too small and thin and WC3's texture filtering ate it.
The runes were fun but sometimes you gotta axe cool ideas for practicality

The new cloth looks much better in-game (and it's full, plush TC) and the blurring caused by the tiny mip-maps when the faces are at an angle isn't an issue.

Aww... That's quite a shame. I wonder if there wouldn't be a way to involve something runic, like a big swirly line or summat... *sigh*

Well anyway, lookin' super snazzy. I'm glad the hair is curly & bouncy. Else-wise it's coming together.

I know it's only a modeling contest, but have you given any thought to what kind of Hero this could be? I'd love to incorporate it into something...

 

[BallisticTerrain]

Alright, here is the actual finished mesh. Hope you all like it. You're a tough crowd to please. I added a crown to his head and changed his weapon.
Also, this mesh is now fully unwrapped. It's too late to make any major changes, but I can fit one more object into one of the two UV textures if someone has a great idea for an addition.
I don't have an official name for him now. Lets all refer to him as the "Necromancer death king warrior mage."

Who says I gotta use a magic hook wand?!